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Subject: RE: [soa-rm] Groups - Generic SOA-RM Boot Camp (SOAReferenceModel-Generic-rev1_05-03.ppt) uploaded

I agree completely with all of Martin's thoughts. To also cite an
example from the PPT:

The TC is asking itself these questions:
What elements are common in all implementations of SOA? ( be careful -
think about this)
(Paraphrased) What are the core things that make SOA service oriented?

I believe that something can be a "core thing that makes SOA
service-oriented", yet not necessarily be present in all implementations
of SOA. 

That also begs the question: If we are truly looking for elements are
common in all implementations of SOA, how can this really be done? Given
that SOA has such a disparity of clarity in the world (even though some
of us do have their own solid definitions of it in their mind:), how can
we really be sure what "all implementations of SOA" need or have? Also,
it is possible to really know this? Not trying to be flippant here, but
I don't think it would be reasonable for us to survey all SOA
implementations that exist.

Given that there is a lot of concrete (though I know that term is
subjective) information out there regarding SOA (e.g. CBDi, ZapThink,
WebServices.org, XML.org, vendor papers, etc.), a concern of mine is
that if we are too abstract, people will automatically gravitate toward
the concrete anyway (human nature) and our work will be lost in the

Let's give the world something they can *truly* sink their teeth into
and use in their everyday work,without having to take the time to figure
out "what do they really mean by this?". IMO, if it passes that test,
then we have done tremendously well.


Joseph Chiusano
Booz Allen Hamilton
Visit us online@ http://www.boozallen.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Smith, Martin [mailto:Martin.Smith@DHS.GOV] 
> Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2005 11:51 AM
> To: dnickull@adobe.com; soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: RE: [soa-rm] Groups - Generic SOA-RM Boot Camp 
> (SOAReferenceModel-Generic-rev1_05-03.ppt) uploaded
> Duane - - 
> This a a good sort of thing to have available - - sort of a 
> graphical FAQ.  Thanks.
> Couple of substantive comments:
> (1) I think many of us are scoping the work too narrowly: a 
> "services RM" does not solve what I (at least) need, which is 
> a "services-oriented distributed application" reference 
> model. I had always assumed that when people said "SOA" they 
> meant the latter.  This draft seems to define the former.
> (2)  I don't think the RM should necessarily be limited to 
> elements that are mandatory in all implementations.  You 
> suggest a formulation that avoids this for security (i.e, 
> null security policy is a security policy); Rebecka used a 
> similar device in observing that all mechanisms in a software 
> environment can be defined as services and therefore we might 
> not need to include any particular "SOA infrastructure" 
> services separately in our RM.  I would prefer to be explicit 
> in getting a maximum set of elements on the table (BPM for 
> example) and then coming back later to refactor or simplify 
> the model. Otherwise we may end up with an elegantly simple 
> but trivial product, meaning one that does not provide any 
> useful guidance to architects.
> Martin
> ________________________________
> From: dnickull@adobe.com [mailto:dnickull@adobe.com]
> Sent: Fri 4/15/2005 4:29 PM
> To: soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: [soa-rm] Groups - Generic SOA-RM Boot Camp 
> (SOAReferenceModel-Generic-rev1_05-03.ppt) uploaded
> This is a draft submission to help orient new members as they 
> join.  Please review and comment on.  Want to ensure that we 
> are in basic agreement on these items.
>  -- Duane Nickull
> The document revision named Generic SOA-RM Boot Camp
> (SOAReferenceModel-Generic-rev1_05-03.ppt) has been submitted 
> by Duane Nickull to the OASIS SOA Reference Model TC document 
> repository.  This document is revision #1 of 
> SOAReferenceModel-Generic-rev1_05-03.ppt.
> Document Description:
> A draft presentation for orienting new members.
> View Document Details:
> http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/soa-rm/document.p
> hp?document_id=12276
> Download Document: 
> http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/soa-rm/download.p
> Revision:
> This document is revision #1 of 
> SOAReferenceModel-Generic-rev1_05-03.ppt.
> The document details page referenced above will show the 
> complete revision history.
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