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Subject: RE: [soa-rm] Negotiation? (was: [soa-rm] Good Recent SOA Piece: "Managing an XML Data Model In Your SOA - Best Practices")
"It is an objective of this specification that a CPA SHALL be capable of being composed by intersecting the respective CPPs of the Parties involved. The resulting CPA SHALL contain only those elements that are in common, or compatible, between the two Parties. Variable quantities, such as number of retries of errors, are then negotiated between the two Parties. The design of the CPP and CPA schemata facilitates this composition/negotiation process. However, the composition and negotiation processes themselves are outside the scope of this specification. Appendix E contains a non-normative discussion of this subject."
Joe
Martin,
From: Ken Laskey [mailto:klaskey@mitre.org]
Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 4:59 PM
To: Smith, Martin; soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [soa-rm] Negotiation? (was: [soa-rm] Good Recent SOA Piece: "Managing an XML Data Model In Your SOA - Best Practices")
Well put. I could see decision being a more fundamental service used by negotiation, e.g. given services with different policy alternatives, which one appears more likely to satisfy my conditions? The result of such an evaluation would also give me the starting point of a counter offer.
Now, realizing these capabilities in an automated fashion is not trivial. However, this is where we want to be when we grow up.
Ken
At 03:49 PM 5/9/2005, Smith, Martin wrote:
Ken - - -
“Decision” versus “negotiation”. The former implies (to me) a unilateral evaluation; the latter a bilateral (or more.) The former implies “check out what’s on offer, and make your best choice”; the latter implies “check out what’s on offer, but you may make counter-offers.” The former seems suitable for an environment where service clients (themselves services) are “price takers” (have no market power); the latter is more like a market of peers. I’d say our main target environment is more like the latter. I’d also say the latter may be said to subsume the former as a special case, namely, where the client service is not interested in negotiation and so accepts the choices on offer; or the provider service is not willing to negotiate.
What do you think??
Martin
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Laskey [ mailto:klaskey@mitre.org]
Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 2:10 PM
To: Smith, Martin; soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: Re: [soa-rm] Negotiation? (was: [soa-rm] Good Recent SOA Piece: "Managing an XML Data Model In Your SOA - Best Practices")
If I can rephrase, is a decision support capability an intrinsic feature of a SOA that will enable and support dynamic evaluation of options, leading eventually to dynamic composability?
Well, maybe that's putting a few extra words in your mouth but I think it is consistent with what you are laying out.
Am I at least in the same ballpark?
Ken
At 02:00 PM 5/9/2005, Smith, Martin wrote:
Context? We don’ need no steenkin’ context. <g>
Actually, I’ve been thinking that we might want to elevate “negotiation” to a first-class RM concept, for the reasons implied by Frank’s comment. This all comes back to the fact that we’re dealing with organizations and people outside our “local” management domain. We therefore need to take account of the possibility that we speak another language (semantic/syntactic/grammatical diversity), use different technical protocols, and have different policies (security, service levels, contractual). In each case, some process of negotiation and alignment is needed before business can start happening . . .
Martin
-----Original Message-----
From: Chiusano Joseph [ mailto:chiusano_joseph@bah.com]
Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 12:55 PM
To: Frank McCabe; Sally St. Amand
Cc: John Harby; soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [soa-rm] Good Recent SOA Piece: "Managing an XML Data Model In Your SOA - Best Practices"
<Quote>
Now, who can I beat over the head with this?
</Quote>
I think I am missing the context of this question.
Joe
Joseph Chiusano
Booz Allen Hamilton
Visit us online@ http://www.boozallen.com
From: Frank McCabe [ mailto:frank.mccabe@us.fujitsu.com]
Sent: Mon 5/9/2005 12:53 PM
To: Sally St. Amand
Cc: John Harby; Chiusano Joseph; soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: Re: [soa-rm] Good Recent SOA Piece: "Managing an XML Data Model In Your SOA - Best Practices"
I like this quote:
<quote>
The move to SOA is forcing us to confront topics like identity and
semantics, because the boundaries that previously existed between
separate pools of trust and meaning are dissolving. This has far-
reaching consequences for the way we organize and consume computing.
</quote>
Now, who can I beat over the head with this?
Frank
On May 8, 2005, at 6:09 PM, Sally St. Amand wrote:
> Having just read this blog I need to ask if the "identity"
> presentation (made at the F2F) you spoke of on Wed's call related
> to this same point? I was not at the F2F. Did the presenter provide
> a copy of the slides?
>
> John Harby <jharby@gmail.com> wrote: This is an excellent blog
> entry from Phil:
>
> http://www.looselycoupled.com/blog/lc00aa00096.html
>
> On 5/6/05, Chiusano Joseph wrote:
> > Forwarding a good recent SOA piece[1] for those interested in
> reading it.
> > Covers the notion of an integrated data model as a foundational
> concept;
> > also presents a 6-layer approach to SOA (about mid-article).
> >
> > Joe
> >
> > [1] http://www.tdan.com/i032ht02.htm
> >
> >
> >
> > Joseph Chiusano
> >
> > Booz Allen Hamilton
> >
> > Visit us online@ http://www.boozallen.com
> >
--
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/ Ken Laskey \
| MITRE Corporation, M/S H305 phone: 703-983-7934 |
| 7515 Colshire Drive fax: 703-983-1379 |
\ McLean VA 22102-7508 /
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*** note: phone number changed 4/15/2005 to 703-983-7934 ***--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
/ Ken Laskey \
| MITRE Corporation, M/S H305 phone: 703-983-7934 |
| 7515 Colshire Drive fax: 703-983-1379 |
\ McLean VA 22102-7508 /
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*** note: phone number changed 4/15/2005 to 703-983-7934 ***
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