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Subject: Re: [soa-rm] [Please indicate if you believe pulse check would bevaluable] RE: [soa-rm] Service-Orientation, SOA, RM vs. RA,etc.: Suggestion To Bring Us Closer Together


Joe or Matt:

Would you consider entering a comment against the current draft to 
rename the spec?  This would be a good way to bring focus onto this item. 

Duane

Matthew MacKenzie wrote:

> N, but I do think we need to consider the word ordering in our 
> specification's title more closely.
>
> -Matt
>
> On 20-May-05, at 9:26 AM, Chiusano Joseph wrote:
>
>> Thanks Matt.
>>  
>> TC members: If you believe that a "pulse check" to see where we 
>> collectively stand on these fundamental issues would be valuable 
>> (i.e. is our current RM depicting SOA or is it depicting service 
>> orientation, what is SOA, etc.) please indicate this asap. Please 
>> note that this is not asking what is your view, but would a quick 
>> pulse check to get the current overall TC view be valuable to our 
>> process moving forward.
>>  
>> To make it easy: You can "reply all" to this e-mail with a simply 
>> "Yes" (a pulse check would be valuable) or "No" (a pulse check would 
>> not be valuable). Or even Y or N, to save typing effort. ;)
>>  
>> Silence will indicate indifference.
>>  
>> Thanks!
>> Joe
>>  
>> Joseph Chiusano
>> Booz Allen Hamilton
>> Visit us online@ http://www.boozallen.com <http://www.boozallen.com/>
>>  
>>
>>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>     *From:* Matthew MacKenzie [mailto:mattm@adobe.com]
>>     *Sent:* Friday, May 20, 2005 9:15 AM
>>     *To:* Chiusano Joseph
>>     *Cc:* soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org
>>     <mailto:soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org>
>>     *Subject:* Re: [soa-rm] Service-Orientation, SOA, RM vs. RA,
>>     etc.: Suggestion To Bring Us Closer Together
>>
>>     Joe,
>>
>>     This can play out in one of two ways:
>>
>>     1) Overwhelming interest by TC members on the email list makes it
>>     obvious that discussion is required immediately.  I've not seen
>>     that yet.  Could happen today.  If I see that, I think I can put
>>     up an informal poll because it would be obvious that many folks
>>     think we need a "pulse check".
>>
>>     2) Your agenda request is noted by Duane when he gets this
>>     message, and if (1) doesn't somehow resolve the issue, it can be
>>     resolved at the next meeting.  The issue probably shouldn't be
>>     about the poll, the issue in this case should probably be the
>>     subject of the poll.
>>
>>     -Matt
>>
>>
>>     On 20-May-05, at 9:05 AM, Chiusano Joseph wrote:
>>
>>>     Thanks Matt - whom do I see to get this idea on the next meeting
>>>     agenda? Or if it is easier, I would like to please make the
>>>     request now that whoever creates the next agenda includes this idea.
>>>      
>>>     Clarification: Would the vote ask whether or not this "pulse
>>>     check" should be done? Or would the pulse check itself act as
>>>     the vote? I am fine either way - just want to follow our
>>>     procedures. If we do the pulse check then as a TC member, I
>>>     accept, honor, and respect the results whatever they may be.
>>>     It's just the right now when I am asked about what this TC is
>>>     developing, all I can say is "we are not sure" because we do not
>>>     have consensus on what SOA is, what a reference model is, etc.
>>>     At least with this mechanism I will be able to say "our
>>>     consensus is that SOA is X", and "our consensus is that a
>>>     reference model is Y", etc.
>>>      
>>>     Not worried about heckling - after all, I used to do a comedy
>>>     show every Sat. night through the mid-to-late 80s with Jay Mohr.
>>>     One of us used to get heckled (although my "Newark, Newark" song
>>>     parody used to get good responses - sometimes;)
>>>      
>>>     Joe (An Italian-American who watches C-SPAN instead of Friends
>>>     after work)
>>>      
>>>     Kind Regards,
>>>     Joseph Chiusano
>>>     Booz Allen Hamilton
>>>     Visit us online@ http://www.boozallen.com
>>>     <http://www.boozallen.com/>
>>>      
>>>
>>>         ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>         *From:* Matthew MacKenzie [mailto:mattm@adobe.com]
>>>         *Sent:* Friday, May 20, 2005 7:36 AM
>>>         *To:* Chiusano Joseph
>>>         *Cc:* Duane Nickull; soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org
>>>         <mailto:soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org>
>>>         *Subject:* Re: [soa-rm] Service-Orientation, SOA, RM vs. RA,
>>>         etc.: Suggestion To Bring Us Closer Together
>>>
>>>         Joe,
>>>
>>>         1. Get your idea on the next meeting agenda.
>>>         2. Attend said meeting.
>>>         3. Bring forward a motion, and ask for a eligible person to
>>>         second it.
>>>         4. It will be put to vote.
>>>
>>>         Parliamentary process is wonderful, but you have to expect
>>>         lots of heckling and disagreement.
>>>
>>>         -Matt (A Canadian who watches C-SPAN instead of Friends
>>>         after work)
>>>
>>>         On 20-May-05, at 6:51 AM, Chiusano Joseph wrote:
>>>
>>>>         <Quote>
>>>>         This is the TC process at work.  Can we please give it a
>>>>         chance?
>>>>         </Quote>
>>>>          
>>>>         Please clarify why you believe that a TC member asking that
>>>>         we poll the TC informally to gain clarification on issues
>>>>         that are fundamental to the TC's mission is outside of the
>>>>         normal TC process.
>>>>          
>>>>         Joe
>>>>
>>>>         ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>         *From:* Duane Nickull [mailto:dnickull@adobe.com]
>>>>         *Sent:* Thu 5/19/2005 11:27 PM
>>>>         *Cc:* soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org
>>>>         <mailto:soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org>
>>>>         *Subject:* Re: [soa-rm] Service-Orientation, SOA, RM vs.
>>>>         RA, etc.: Suggestion To Bring Us Closer Together
>>>>
>>>>         The current draft is a work in progress and we are actively
>>>>         editing it
>>>>         now.  It will change to reflect TC consensus.  What else do
>>>>         you want? 
>>>>         This is the TC process at work.  Can we please give it a
>>>>         chance?
>>>>
>>>>         None of us have stated that our current draft is truly SOA,
>>>>         nor should
>>>>         we until we have TC consensus.
>>>>
>>>>         Duane
>>>>
>>>>         Chiusano Joseph wrote:
>>>>
>>>>         >I would be very willing to take on documenting it, but
>>>>         there is a
>>>>         >prerequisite that is missing, which was part of my message
>>>>         in this
>>>>         >thread - and that is coming to agreement within the TC as
>>>>         whether our
>>>>         >current RM is truly SOA - which also has a prerequisite of
>>>>         coming to
>>>>         >aggrement within the TC on what we believe SOA is (is more
>>>>         than 1
>>>>         >service required to have SOA, are shared services a
>>>>         fundamental
>>>>         >component, etc.). Our current draft states that SOA is a
>>>>         type of EA, and
>>>>         >we have already determined (I believe) that that is not
>>>>         the case.
>>>>         >
>>>>         >Kind Regards,
>>>>         >Joseph Chiusano
>>>>         >Booz Allen Hamilton
>>>>         >Visit us online@ http://www.boozallen.com
>>>>         >
>>>>         >
>>>>         > 
>>>>         >
>>>>         >>-----Original Message-----
>>>>         >>From: Duane Nickull [mailto:dnickull@adobe.com]
>>>>         >>Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 11:08 PM
>>>>         >>Cc: soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org
>>>>         <mailto:soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org>
>>>>         >>Subject: Re: [soa-rm] Service-Orientation, SOA, RM vs. RA,
>>>>         >>etc.: Suggestion To Bring Us Closer Together
>>>>         >>
>>>>         >>Joseph:
>>>>         >>
>>>>         >>I will concur that the definition between RA and RM could use
>>>>         >>documenting.  Is that a task you may be willing to take on?
>>>>         >>
>>>>         >>Duane
>>>>         >>
>>>>         >>Chiusano Joseph wrote:
>>>>         >>
>>>>         >>   
>>>>         >>
>>>>         >>>Duane,
>>>>         >>>
>>>>         >>>I would like to make a suggestion to help clear up the
>>>>         current
>>>>         >>>division in our TC on some basic issues, which I believe
>>>>         is truly
>>>>         >>>inhibiting our ability to move forward in a unified way
>>>>         - and will
>>>>         >>>continue to do so unless we address it at this time.
>>>>         >>>
>>>>         >>>The most prominent division that I have perceived over the
>>>>         >>>     
>>>>         >>>
>>>>         >>course of
>>>>         >>   
>>>>         >>
>>>>         >>>several weeks is: "If we are defining a reference model,
>>>>         what is it
>>>>         >>>for? Is it for a single service? (call this
>>>>         >>>     
>>>>         >>>
>>>>         >>"service-orientation") or
>>>>         >>   
>>>>         >>
>>>>         >>>SOA?" IOW, "Is it SO-RM, or SOA-RM?"
>>>>         >>>
>>>>         >>>The second most prominent division that I have perceived
>>>>         over the
>>>>         >>>course of several weeks is: "Where is the line drawn
>>>>         between RM and
>>>>         >>>RA?". Last week I began a thread[1] on this question, and I
>>>>         >>>     
>>>>         >>>
>>>>         >>thank all
>>>>         >>   
>>>>         >>
>>>>         >>>who contributed (Matt, Duane, Ken, Rex, Francis, any others
>>>>         >>>     
>>>>         >>>
>>>>         >>I missed).
>>>>         >>   
>>>>         >>
>>>>         >>>However, I think we really need to drill down into this
>>>>         >>>     
>>>>         >>>
>>>>         >>question more
>>>>         >>   
>>>>         >>
>>>>         >>>and have a crystal clear answer before we go any farther,
>>>>         >>>     
>>>>         >>>
>>>>         >>else run the
>>>>         >>   
>>>>         >>
>>>>         >>>risk of creating an RM that cannot easily "bridge to" an RA.
>>>>         >>>
>>>>         >>>
>>>>         >>>     
>>>>         >>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>


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