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Subject: Re: [soa-rm] [Please indicate if you believe pulse check would be valuable] RE: [soa-rm] Service-Orientation, SOA, RM vs. RA, etc.:Suggestion To Bring Us Closer Together


It just allowed me to vote.

Rex

At 10:09 AM -0700 5/20/05, Duane Nickull wrote:
>Apoligies - the vote is not open until tonight.  I guess it will 
>announce itself.
>
>Duane
>
>Duane Nickull wrote:
>
>>There is now a ballot set up to vote on this. I am not sure why it 
>>has not yet sent out a message announcing itself.
>>
>>All members who have attended 3 of the last 5 meetings are eligible 
>>to vote. This is relaxed from the requirement to be a voting member.
>>
>>Please go to Kavi under the ballots area and vite according to your 
>>preference.
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>>Duane
>>
>>Chiusano Joseph wrote:
>>
>>>Totals from responses so far:
>>>Y: 6
>>>N: 1 (with additional information provided)
>>>Joe
>>>Joseph Chiusano
>>>Booz Allen Hamilton
>>>Visit us online@ http://www.boozallen.com <http://www.boozallen.com/>
>>>
>>>    
>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>     *From:* Chiusano Joseph [mailto:chiusano_joseph@bah.com]
>>>     *Sent:* Friday, May 20, 2005 12:09 PM
>>>     *To:* soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org
>>>     *Subject:* RE: [soa-rm] [Please indicate if you believe pulse
>>>     check would be valuable] RE: [soa-rm] Service-Orientation, SOA, RM
>>>     vs. RA, etc.: Suggestion To Bring Us Closer Together
>>>
>>>     Sure - everything you need to know is in:
>>>     http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/soa-rm/200505/msg00514.html
>>>     Joe
>>>     Joseph Chiusano
>>>     Booz Allen Hamilton
>>>     Visit us online@ http://www.boozallen.com <http://www.boozallen.com/>
>>>
>>>        
>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>         *From:* Behera, Prasanta [mailto:pbehera@visa.com]
>>>         *Sent:* Friday, May 20, 2005 11:46 AM
>>>         *To:* Chiusano Joseph; soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org
>>>         *Subject:* RE: [soa-rm] [Please indicate if you believe pulse
>>>         check would be valuable] RE: [soa-rm] Service-Orientation,
>>>         SOA, RM vs. RA, etc.: Suggestion To Bring Us Closer Together
>>>
>>>         I would like the mail to list the issues ("these" is not
>>>         clear). We had tons of email today and it is hard to catch up.
>>>         It will be nice if you can resend the mail specifying the issues
>>>
>>>         Thanks,
>>>
>>>         /Prasanta
>>>
>>>         -----Original Message-----
>>>         *From:* Chiusano Joseph [mailto:chiusano_joseph@bah.com]
>>>         *Sent:* Friday, May 20, 2005 6:26 AM
>>>         *To:* soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org
>>>         *Subject:* [soa-rm] [Please indicate if you believe pulse
>>>         check would be valuable] RE: [soa-rm] Service-Orientation,
>>>         SOA, RM vs. RA, etc.: Suggestion To Bring Us Closer Together
>>>
>>>         Thanks Matt.
>>>
>>>         TC members: If you believe that a "pulse check" to see where
>>>         we collectively stand on these fundamental issues would be
>>>         valuable (i.e. is our current RM depicting SOA or is it
>>>         depicting service orientation, what is SOA, etc.) please
>>>         indicate this asap. Please note that this is not asking what
>>>         is your view, but would a quick pulse check to get the current
>>>         overall TC view be valuable to our process moving forward.
>>>
>>>         To make it easy: You can "reply all" to this e-mail with a
>>>         simply "Yes" (a pulse check would be valuable) or "No" (a
>>>         pulse check would not be valuable). Or even Y or N, to save
>>>         typing effort. ;)
>>>
>>>         Silence will indicate indifference.
>>>
>>>         Thanks!
>>>
>>>         Joe
>>>
>>>         Joseph Chiusano
>>>
>>>         Booz Allen Hamilton
>>>
>>>         Visit us online@ http://www.boozallen.com
>>>         <http://www.boozallen.com/>
>>>
>>>        
>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>         *From:* Matthew MacKenzie [mailto:mattm@adobe.com]
>>>         *Sent:* Friday, May 20, 2005 9:15 AM
>>>         *To:* Chiusano Joseph
>>>         *Cc:* soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org
>>>         *Subject:* Re: [soa-rm] Service-Orientation, SOA, RM vs. RA,
>>>         etc.: Suggestion To Bring Us Closer Together
>>>
>>>         Joe,
>>>
>>>         This can play out in one of two ways:
>>>
>>>         1) Overwhelming interest by TC members on the email list makes
>>>         it obvious that discussion is required immediately. I've not
>>>         seen that yet. Could happen today. If I see that, I think I
>>>         can put up an informal poll because it would be obvious that
>>>         many folks think we need a "pulse check".
>>>
>>>         2) Your agenda request is noted by Duane when he gets this
>>>         message, and if (1) doesn't somehow resolve the issue, it can
>>>         be resolved at the next meeting. The issue probably shouldn't
>>>         be about the poll, the issue in this case should probably be
>>>         the subject of the poll.
>>>
>>>         -Matt
>>>
>>>         On 20-May-05, at 9:05 AM, Chiusano Joseph wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>         Thanks Matt - whom do I see to get this idea on the next
>>>         meeting agenda? Or if it is easier, I would like to please
>>>         make the request now that whoever creates the next agenda
>>>         includes this idea.
>>>
>>>         Clarification: Would the vote ask whether or not this "pulse
>>>         check" should be done? Or would the pulse check itself act as
>>>         the vote? I am fine either way - just want to follow our
>>>         procedures. If we do the pulse check then as a TC member, I
>>>         accept, honor, and respect the results whatever they may be.
>>>         It's just the right now when I am asked about what this TC is
>>>         developing, all I can say is "we are not sure" because we do
>>>         not have consensus on what SOA is, what a reference model is,
>>>         etc. At least with this mechanism I will be able to say "our
>>>         consensus is that SOA is X", and "our consensus is that a
>>>         reference model is Y", etc.
>>>
>>>         Not worried about heckling - after all, I used to do a comedy
>>>         show every Sat. night through the mid-to-late 80s with Jay
>>>         Mohr. One of us used to get heckled (although my "Newark,
>>>         Newark" song parody used to get good responses - sometimes;)
>>>
>>>         Joe (An Italian-American who watches C-SPAN instead of Friends
>>>         after work)
>>>
>>>         Kind Regards,
>>>
>>>         Joseph Chiusano
>>>
>>>         Booz Allen Hamilton
>>>
>>>         Visit us online@ http://www.boozallen.com
>>>         <http://www.boozallen.com/>
>>>
>>>        
>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>         *From:* Matthew MacKenzie [mailto:mattm@adobe.com]
>>>         *Sent:* Friday, May 20, 2005 7:36 AM
>>>         *To:* Chiusano Joseph
>>>         *Cc:* Duane Nickull; soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org
>>>         <mailto:soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org>
>>>         *Subject:* Re: [soa-rm] Service-Orientation, SOA, RM vs. RA,
>>>         etc.: Suggestion To Bring Us Closer Together
>>>
>>>         Joe,
>>>
>>>         1. Get your idea on the next meeting agenda.
>>>
>>>         2. Attend said meeting.
>>>
>>>         3. Bring forward a motion, and ask for a eligible person to
>>>         second it.
>>>
>>>         4. It will be put to vote.
>>>
>>>         Parliamentary process is wonderful, but you have to expect
>>>         lots of heckling and disagreement.
>>>
>>>         -Matt (A Canadian who watches C-SPAN instead of Friends after
>>>         work)
>>>
>>>         On 20-May-05, at 6:51 AM, Chiusano Joseph wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>         <Quote>
>>>
>>>         This is the TC process at work. Can we please give it a chance?
>>>         </Quote>
>>>
>>>         Please clarify why you believe that a TC member asking that we
>>>         poll the TC informally to gain clarification on issues that
>>>         are fundamental to the TC's mission is outside of the normal
>>>         TC process.
>>>
>>>         Joe
>>>
>>>        
>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>         *From:* Duane Nickull [mailto:dnickull@adobe.com]
>>>         *Sent:* Thu 5/19/2005 11:27 PM
>>>         *Cc:* soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org
>>>         <mailto:soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org>
>>>         *Subject:* Re: [soa-rm] Service-Orientation, SOA, RM vs. RA,
>>>         etc.: Suggestion To Bring Us Closer Together
>>>
>>>         The current draft is a work in progress and we are actively
>>>         editing it
>>>         now. It will change to reflect TC consensus. What else do you
>>>         want?
>>>         This is the TC process at work. Can we please give it a chance?
>>>
>>>         None of us have stated that our current draft is truly SOA,
>>>         nor should
>>>         we until we have TC consensus.
>>>
>>>         Duane
>>>
>>>         Chiusano Joseph wrote:
>>>
>>>>I would be very willing to take on documenting it, but there is a
>>>>prerequisite that is missing, which was part of my message in this
>>>>thread - and that is coming to agreement within the TC as
>>>
>>>         whether our
>>>
>>>>current RM is truly SOA - which also has a prerequisite of
>>>
>>>         coming to
>>>
>>>>aggrement within the TC on what we believe SOA is (is more than 1
>>>>service required to have SOA, are shared services a fundamental
>>>>component, etc.). Our current draft states that SOA is a type
>>>
>>>         of EA, and
>>>
>>>>we have already determined (I believe) that that is not the case.
>>>>
>>>>Kind Regards,
>>>>Joseph Chiusano
>>>>Booz Allen Hamilton
>>>>Visit us online@ http://www.boozallen.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>From: Duane Nickull [mailto:dnickull@adobe.com]
>>>>>Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 11:08 PM
>>>>>Cc: soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org
>>>>
>>>         <mailto:soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org>
>>>
>>>>>Subject: Re: [soa-rm] Service-Orientation, SOA, RM vs. RA,
>>>>>etc.: Suggestion To Bring Us Closer Together
>>>>>
>>>>>Joseph:
>>>>>
>>>>>I will concur that the definition between RA and RM could use
>>>>>documenting. Is that a task you may be willing to take on?
>>>>>
>>>>>Duane
>>>>>
>>>>>Chiusano Joseph wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Duane,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I would like to make a suggestion to help clear up the current
>>>>>>division in our TC on some basic issues, which I believe is
>>>>>
>>>         truly
>>>
>>>>>>inhibiting our ability to move forward in a unified way -
>>>>>
>>>         and will
>>>
>>>>>>continue to do so unless we address it at this time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The most prominent division that I have perceived over the
>>>>>>
>>>>>course of
>>>>>
>>>>>>several weeks is: "If we are defining a reference model,
>>>>>
>>>         what is it
>>>
>>>>>>for? Is it for a single service? (call this
>>>>>>
>>>>>"service-orientation") or
>>>>>
>>>>>>SOA?" IOW, "Is it SO-RM, or SOA-RM?"
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The second most prominent division that I have perceived
>>>>>
>>>         over the
>>>
>>>>>>course of several weeks is: "Where is the line drawn between
>>>>>
>>>         RM and
>>>
>>>>>>RA?". Last week I began a thread[1] on this question, and I
>>>>>>
>>>>>thank all
>>>>>
>>>>>>who contributed (Matt, Duane, Ken, Rex, Francis, any others
>>>>>>
>>>>>I missed).
>>>>>
>>>>>>However, I think we really need to drill down into this
>>>>>>
>>>>>question more
>>>>>
>>>>>>and have a crystal clear answer before we go any farther,
>>>>>>
>>>>>else run the
>>>>>
>>>>>>risk of creating an RM that cannot easily "bridge to" an RA.


-- 
Rex Brooks
President, CEO
Starbourne Communications Design
GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison
Berkeley, CA 94702
Tel: 510-849-2309


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