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Subject: Re: [soa-rm] [Please indicate if you believe pulse check would bevaluable] RE: [soa-rm] Service-Orientation, SOA, RM vs. RA, etc.: SuggestionTo Bring Us Closer Together
Yes
~~~~~~~~~
john c hardin
Chair, OASIS ebSOA Technical Committee
http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=ebsoa
313.279.1377 new *VONAGE* number
mailto:john@crossconnections.ws
"The new electronic interdependence recreates the world in the image of a global
village."
Marshall McLuhan, "Gutenberg Galaxy", 1962
Derek C FU wrote:
> Yes
> ._________________________.
> Derek Fu - I/T Architect
> Software Group
> 11/F, PCCW Tower, Taikoo Place, 979 King's Road, Quarry Bay, Hong Kong
> mailto:FuDerek@hk1.ibm.com
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> Inactive hide details for "Chiusano Joseph"
> <chiusano_joseph@bah.com>"Chiusano Joseph" <chiusano_joseph@bah.com>
>
>
> *"Chiusano Joseph" <chiusano_joseph@bah.com>*
>
> 05/20/2005 09:26 PM
>
>
>
> To
>
> <soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org>
>
> cc
>
>
> Subject
>
> [soa-rm] [Please indicate if you believe pulse check would be valuable]
> RE: [soa-rm] Service-Orientation, SOA, RM vs. RA, etc.: Suggestion To
> Bring Us Closer Together
>
>
>
>
> Thanks Matt.
>
> TC members: If you believe that a "pulse check" to see where we
> collectively stand on these fundamental issues would be valuable (i.e.
> is our current RM depicting SOA or is it depicting service orientation,
> what is SOA, etc.) please indicate this asap. Please note that this is
> not asking what is your view, but would a quick pulse check to get the
> current overall TC view be valuable to our process moving forward.
>
> To make it easy: You can "reply all" to this e-mail with a simply "Yes"
> (a pulse check would be valuable) or "No" (a pulse check would not be
> valuable). Or even Y or N, to save typing effort. ;)
>
> Silence will indicate indifference.
>
> Thanks!
> Joe
>
> Joseph Chiusano
> Booz Allen Hamilton
> Visit us online@ _http://www.boozallen.com_ <http://www.boozallen.com/>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Matthew MacKenzie [mailto:mattm@adobe.com] *
> Sent:* Friday, May 20, 2005 9:15 AM*
> To:* Chiusano Joseph*
> Cc:* soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org*
> Subject:* Re: [soa-rm] Service-Orientation, SOA, RM vs. RA, etc.:
> Suggestion To Bring Us Closer Together
>
> Joe,
>
> This can play out in one of two ways:
>
> 1) Overwhelming interest by TC members on the email list makes it
> obvious that discussion is required immediately. I've not seen that yet.
> Could happen today. If I see that, I think I can put up an informal poll
> because it would be obvious that many folks think we need a "pulse check".
>
> 2) Your agenda request is noted by Duane when he gets this message, and
> if (1) doesn't somehow resolve the issue, it can be resolved at the next
> meeting. The issue probably shouldn't be about the poll, the issue in
> this case should probably be the subject of the poll.
>
> -Matt
>
>
> On 20-May-05, at 9:05 AM, Chiusano Joseph wrote:
>
> Thanks Matt - whom do I see to get this idea on the next
> meeting agenda? Or if it is easier, I would like to please
> make the request now that whoever creates the next agenda
> includes this idea.
>
> Clarification: Would the vote ask whether or not this "pulse
> check" should be done? Or would the pulse check itself act
> as the vote? I am fine either way - just want to follow our
> procedures. If we do the pulse check then as a TC member, I
> accept, honor, and respect the results whatever they may be.
> It's just the right now when I am asked about what this TC
> is developing, all I can say is "we are not sure" because we
> do not have consensus on what SOA is, what a reference model
> is, etc. At least with this mechanism I will be able to say
> "our consensus is that SOA is X", and "our consensus is that
> a reference model is Y", etc.
>
> Not worried about heckling - after all, I used to do a
> comedy show every Sat. night through the mid-to-late 80s
> with Jay Mohr. One of us used to get heckled (although my
> "Newark, Newark" song parody used to get good responses -
> sometimes;)
>
> Joe (An Italian-American who watches C-SPAN instead of
> Friends after work)
>
> Kind Regards,
> Joseph Chiusano
> Booz Allen Hamilton
> Visit us online@ _http://www.boozallen.com_
> <http://www.boozallen.com/>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Matthew MacKenzie [_mailto:mattm@adobe.com_] *
> Sent:* Friday, May 20, 2005 7:36 AM*
> To:* Chiusano Joseph*
> Cc:* Duane Nickull; _soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org_
> <mailto:soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org>*
> Subject:* Re: [soa-rm] Service-Orientation, SOA, RM vs. RA,
> etc.: Suggestion To Bring Us Closer Together
>
> Joe,
>
> 1. Get your idea on the next meeting agenda.
> 2. Attend said meeting.
> 3. Bring forward a motion, and ask for a eligible person to
> second it.
> 4. It will be put to vote.
>
> Parliamentary process is wonderful, but you have to expect
> lots of heckling and disagreement.
>
> -Matt (A Canadian who watches C-SPAN instead of Friends
> after work)
>
> On 20-May-05, at 6:51 AM, Chiusano Joseph wrote:
> <Quote>
> This is the TC process at work. Can we please
> give it a chance?
> </Quote>
>
> Please clarify why you believe that a TC member
> asking that we poll the TC informally to gain
> clarification on issues that are fundamental to
> the TC's mission is outside of the normal TC
> process.
>
> Joe
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Duane Nickull [_mailto:dnickull@adobe.com_]*
> Sent:* Thu 5/19/2005 11:27 PM*
> Cc:* _soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org_
> <mailto:soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org>*
> Subject:* Re: [soa-rm] Service-Orientation, SOA,
> RM vs. RA, etc.: Suggestion To Bring Us Closer
> Together
>
> The current draft is a work in progress and we
> are actively editing it
> now. It will change to reflect TC consensus.
> What else do you want?
> This is the TC process at work. Can we please
> give it a chance?
>
> None of us have stated that our current draft is
> truly SOA, nor should
> we until we have TC consensus.
>
> Duane
>
> Chiusano Joseph wrote:
>
> >I would be very willing to take on documenting
> it, but there is a
> >prerequisite that is missing, which was part
> of my message in this
> >thread - and that is coming to agreement
> within the TC as whether our
> >current RM is truly SOA - which also has a
> prerequisite of coming to
> >aggrement within the TC on what we believe SOA
> is (is more than 1
> >service required to have SOA, are shared
> services a fundamental
> >component, etc.). Our current draft states
> that SOA is a type of EA, and
> >we have already determined (I believe) that
> that is not the case.
> >
> >Kind Regards,
> >Joseph Chiusano
> >Booz Allen Hamilton
> >Visit us online@ _http://www.boozallen.com_
> <http://www.boozallen.com/>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Duane Nickull [_mailto:dnickull@adobe.com_]
> >>Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 11:08 PM
> >>Cc: _soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org_
> <mailto:soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org>
> >>Subject: Re: [soa-rm] Service-Orientation,
> SOA, RM vs. RA,
> >>etc.: Suggestion To Bring Us Closer Together
> >>
> >>Joseph:
> >>
> >>I will concur that the definition between RA
> and RM could use
> >>documenting. Is that a task you may be
> willing to take on?
> >>
> >>Duane
> >>
> >>Chiusano Joseph wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Duane,
> >>>
> >>>I would like to make a suggestion to help
> clear up the current
> >>>division in our TC on some basic issues,
> which I believe is truly
> >>>inhibiting our ability to move forward in a
> unified way - and will
> >>>continue to do so unless we address it at
> this time.
> >>>
> >>>The most prominent division that I have
> perceived over the
> >>>
> >>>
> >>course of
> >>
> >>
> >>>several weeks is: "If we are defining a
> reference model, what is it
> >>>for? Is it for a single service? (call this
> >>>
> >>>
> >>"service-orientation") or
> >>
> >>
> >>>SOA?" IOW, "Is it SO-RM, or SOA-RM?"
> >>>
> >>>The second most prominent division that I
> have perceived over the
> >>>course of several weeks is: "Where is the
> line drawn between RM and
> >>>RA?". Last week I began a thread[1] on this
> question, and I
> >>>
> >>>
> >>thank all
> >>
> >>
> >>>who contributed (Matt, Duane, Ken, Rex,
> Francis, any others
> >>>
> >>>
> >>I missed).
> >>
> >>
> >>>However, I think we really need to drill
> down into this
> >>>
> >>>
> >>question more
> >>
> >>
> >>>and have a crystal clear answer before we go
> any farther,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>else run the
> >>
> >>
> >>>risk of creating an RM that cannot easily
> "bridge to" an RA.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
>
>
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