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Subject: Re: [soa-rm] David Linthicum Says: "ESB versus Fabric.Stop It!"
Sadly, a reference model for reference models is not available to my knowledge. Such may be a good project of at least guidelines for creating RM's. One thing that may be useful is to depict where SOA could sit in relationship to the OSI stack and the concept of orchestration/process coordination, process management etc. This would have the unfortunate consequence of placing SOA only in a network environment which may be too constraintive. To substantiate the claim of a single service in its RM, look at the OSI RM below. It has only one of each thing. It is a communication stack so one might expect that you need two or each (one to send, one to receive). Only one exist since it is a reference model, not an infrastructure or architecture. It has multiple layers however each layer represents a single concept, not two or more of each thing. That is due to the abstract nature of the RM. I hope this is sufficient. Duane Chiusano Joseph wrote: >Duane, > >I was actually asking you to substantiate your claim that expressing a >single service in our reference models is in alignment with other >reference models. If you believe it is actually true, please provide >some concrete associations. Right now I am skeptical of that claim, and >am asking for more concrete justification for it. Please don't feel that >you need to hold back your expertise. > >Right now, I can say that the OSI reference model provides multiple >layers for network communication, and therefore our reference model >should provide multiple levels of service orientation, to include >orchestration. I say that to drive home the point that there is more >than one way to interpret these reference models. > >Thanks, >Joe > >Joseph Chiusano >Booz Allen Hamilton >Visit us online@ http://www.boozallen.com > > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Duane Nickull [mailto:dnickull@adobe.com] >>Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 1:17 PM >>Cc: soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org >>Subject: Re: [soa-rm] David Linthicum Says: "ESB versus >>Fabric.Stop It!" >> >>Google? >> >>Osi Reference Model is probably the most famous. >> >>1. Open System Interconnection (OSI) reference model: >> >> * Layer 7-Application >> * Layer 6-Presentation >> * Layer 5-Session >> * Layer 4-Transport >> * Layer 3-Network >> * Layer 2-Data link >> * Layer 1-Physical >> >>2. The workflow reference model (look at Figure 1) >> >>http://www.wfmc.org/standards/docs/tc003v11.pdf >> >>There are several others you can reach with Google >> >>http://ssdoo.gsfc.nasa.gov/nost/wwwclassic/documents/pdf/CCSDS >>-650.0-B-1.pdf >>http://ssdoo.gsfc.nasa.gov/nost/isoas/ref_model.html >>http://www.isotopicmaps.org/tmrm/ >>http://earthref.org/GERM/index.html?main.htm >> >>This one I really like: >>http://www.digitalearth.gov/derm/v05/index.html >> >>http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/egov/a-2-prm.html >> >>Interesting enough - our TC comes up several times in the top >>ten >>http://www.google.com/search?as_q=reference+model&num=10&hl=en >>&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial_s&btnG=Go >> >> >ogle+Search&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=osi&lr=&as_ft=i&as_filetype=&as_qdr=all >&as_occt=any&as_dt=i&as_sitesearch=&safe=images > > >>when you exclude the phrase "OSI" >> >>Duane >> >>Chiusano Joseph wrote: >> >> >> >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: Duane Nickull [mailto:dnickull@adobe.com] >>>>Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 12:33 PM >>>>Cc: soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org >>>>Subject: Re: [soa-rm] David Linthicum Says: "ESB versus Fabric.Stop >>>>It!" >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Chiusano Joseph wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>Which brings us back to what I believe is the single most >>>>> >>>>> >>important >> >> >>>>>question for us to answer: Does one service constitute a >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>SOA? Or are 2 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>or more services required? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>An SOA infrastructure (constrained by a specific SOA) will >>>>*probably* have more than one service. A Reference Model for SOA >>>>*will* only have one service expressed, in alignment with other >>>>reference models. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>Seeking to be educated - please provide examples of "other reference >>>models". >>> >>>Thanks, >>>Joe >>> >>>Joseph Chiusano >>>Booz Allen Hamilton >>>Visit us online@ http://www.boozallen.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>We can still demonstrate in appendix >>>>B the realtionship between these two things. Doing so would >>>>be prudent IMO. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>If 2 or more services are required, then it seems to me that >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>in order >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>to call something a *SOA* reference model, the notion of multiple >>>>>services must be incorporated - as that is the minimal amount of >>>>>information necessary to *effectively* represent/model the >>>>> >>>>> >>"targeted >> >> >>>>>entity" (which is SOA) for the intended audience. >>>>> >>>>>If one service constitutes a SOA, this implies that a SOA >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>may have more >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>than one service. It then seems to me that one has a >>>>> >>>>> >>choice for their >> >> >>>>>RM: include only a single service in the model, or include >>>>> >>>>> >>multiple >> >> >>>>>services. The question then becomes which approach enables >>>>> >>>>> >>the most >> >> >>>>>effective representation for the intended audience. >>>>> >>>>>So as you see, I believe everything flows from this single most >>>>>important question. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>Which has been answered many times in the same manner I >>>>believe. RM has one, RA or other specific archtiectures CAN >>>>have more than one, but do not have to to be conformant with the RM. >>>> >>>>Duane >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>
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