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Subject: RE: [soa-rm] Service Consumer in RM or not?

Matt and Duane,
I completely understand your concerns as stated below. Is there perhaps a middle ground, where we can constrain expansion into architecture? Do comsumers have to be viewed as "endpoints"? Or can they be viewed as "actors"? If so, does that change any perspective?
If this does not make sense (in terms of not making sense to include service consumers in the RM), and we include them in an RA, I hope we can leave open the possibility that this TC's outputs can potentially be labeled as:
- A Service Orientation Reference Model (SO RM) - that is, don't label this as "SOA RM" but rather "SO RM"
- A SOA Reference Architecture (SOA RA)
rather than a single SOA Reference Model (SOA RM).
Joseph Chiusano
Booz Allen Hamilton
Visit us online@ http://www.boozallen.com

From: Matthew MacKenzie [mailto:mattm@adobe.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 8:14 AM
Subject: Re: [soa-rm] Service Consumer in RM or not?

If I can interject...

I think that Duane and I are concerned with the slippery slope that exists when we start including endpoints such as consumers in the RM.  After consumers will come messages, and the next thing we know we'll have a WSDL binding in appendix e or some such.




On 7-Jun-05, at 7:21 AM, Chiusano Joseph wrote:

If we do vote to include the SC, we then have to open up the RM to everything else that follows which means that it won't be a RM, it will be architecture.
This is an idea that I see you have been pushing very hard almost from the start of our TC, yet I believe some of us are perplexed as to why introduction of a service consumer into an RM is against the notion of RM. Can you please clarify for us?

From: Duane Nickull [mailto:dnickull@adobe.com]
Sent: Mon 6/6/2005 7:39 PM
To: peter@justbrown.net
Cc: 'SOA-RM'
Subject: Re: [soa-rm] Service Consumer in RM or not?

Hi - I'm back!!

Comments inline:

Peter F Brown wrote:

>1) A service is an event
DN - a "service invocation" is an event. The "service" itself is not an
event IMO, it is an invoke able entity..

>representing a collaboration between two parties
>for the use of defined resources: a "service RM" would be concerned with
>representing both parties (provider and consumer), the duality of their
>interaction through the event and the use of resources...
>In this approach:
>- service consumer would definitely be in, as one side of the event-based
>duality (provider<>consumer);
>- a further level of abstraction can be modelled, that of "agent", to
>highlight the shared properties of both provider and consumer. In this
>manner, it would be easier to answer the problem "how do we model the
>situation where a service provider can also be a consumer, and vice-versa?".
>They are both agents. Whether they are consumers or providers would
>therefore be modelled as a "role" in agent.
>2) A service is a "directed collaboration" between two parties: directed in
>the sense that one party provides a service to another: a "service provision
>RM" would only be concerned with one side of the duality, representing the
>service provider, irrespective of whether the service is used, or whether
>there is a consumer at the end of the "pipe"...

I would like to call for a vote on this too to put it to bed for once an
all.  My assertion = If I architect something with a service, a consumer
does not have to be present for it to be "service oriented".   Nor do
messages, networks, signals, pings, security, encryption etc etc.   This
is much the same as stating that a "message" does not have to be sent in
order for it to be a "message".  It can exist with or without being

If we do go the way of the service provider and service consumer, this
could be done in an illustrative (non-normative) manner in the RM or
(and I favor this idea) as part of a reference architecture.  If we do
vote to include the SC, we then have to open up the RM to everything
else that follows which means that it won't be a RM, it will be

I had hoped we could gain consensus on this and avoid a vote however I
feel a vote may be inevitable.

BTW - has anyone else noticed that the list is very slow today? It took
5 hours for my last message to come back to me via this list?


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