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Subject: Re: [soa-rm] Wikipedia definitions FYI
Concur. Main point is that we should not adopt the Wikipedia definition carte blanche. D Matthew MacKenzie wrote: > In my opinion, state-fulness is an implementation detail. I don't > see what we gain by saying that a "service can be stateful" or > perhaps "must be stateless". Looking at J2EE, for example we see > that the core concept of the system is Enterprise Java Beans, of > which there are various types. The two most common are Stateful and > Stateless session beans. The adjective Stateful and Stateless don't > hold much meaning to me from an abstract perspective. Only when I > dive down into applying J2EE to specific architectures does SLSB vs. > SFSB become interesting. > > -matt > > On 13-Jun-05, at 3:41 PM, Duane Nickull wrote: > >> Martin, Matt: >> >> The BPM, Choreography is a different "state" conversation that this >> one. I think this is about the state for the execution of a single >> service (like the statement that HTTP itself is stateless), not >> state for execution of multiple services. The latter is definitely >> out of scope IMO. >> >> The state aspect in question is "Does a service require anything to >> be known about past interactions between the service consumer and >> itself" before taking an action (such as a service response). My >> assertion is that in some cases the answer may be yes, even if it is >> as simple as a set of tokens to identify the service consumer. >> I find flaw in making a statement as Wikipedia references that >> implies all services are stateless. Regardless, this may or may not >> be relevant to the RM. >> >> At the very least I hope it is interesting :-p >> >> Duane >> >> >> >> Matthew MacKenzie wrote: >> >> >>> When we begin talking about transactions and state, we obviously >>> are getting into the choreography/BPM discussion, which in my >>> humble opinion *is out of scope* for the RM. >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> Matt >>> >>> On 13-Jun-05, at 3:25 PM, Smith, Martin wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Hey, I'll settle for one lousy state-maintenance shared service (aka >>>> BPM.) >>>> >>>> Martin >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Duane Nickull [mailto:dnickull@adobe.com] >>>> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 3:22 PM >>>> To: Smith, Martin >>>> Cc: Breininger, Kathryn R; SOA RM >>>> Subject: Re: [soa-rm] Wikipedia definitions FYI >>>> >>>> Martin: >>>> >>>> For the record, I disagree with the Wikipedia definition as it >>>> is. IMO >>>> - state maintenance may have to be done behind the service interface, >>>> but some information may be maintained in custom data stores or >>>> persistent message stores at the binding level. Certain services may >>>> have a processing model of 1 Request -> * Responses. A fictional >>>> example is a service where a user registers to receive stock >>>> trades as >>>> they happen. There are a few things that must be maintained >>>> behind the >>>> service: >>>> >>>> 1. details of how the service consumer can receive the response >>>> 2. tokens to identify the service consumer should they wish to >>>> modify or >>>> >>>> cancel their request >>>> 3. The last stock trade they received notice of (probably stored >>>> in the >>>> form of archived responses in the transport layer). >>>> >>>> I am sure that DHS may have similar designs on a service where they >>>> could subscribe to events related to use of a certain set of >>>> identification credentials for people on the "watch list" (I >>>> wonder if >>>> participation in this TC is criteria for being on the watch list ;-) >>>> >>>> I would therefore assert that the Wikipedia definition of services as >>>> "stateless" is illogical and incorrect. >>>> >>>> Duane >>>> >>>> Smith, Martin wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> So, where exactly is state maintained in an SOA??? Going to be >>>>> tough to >>>>> execute transactions without state. >>>>> >>>>> Martin >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Duane Nickull [mailto:dnickull@adobe.com] >>>>> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 3:02 PM >>>>> To: Breininger, Kathryn R >>>>> Cc: SOA RM >>>>> Subject: Re: [soa-rm] Wikipedia definitions FYI >>>>> >>>>> The comment about services being stateless is interesting. If we >>>>> agree >>>>> with that assertion, it may affect the notion of a service >>>>> processing >>>>> model (request to many responses). Also - that seems to be more >>>>> tied >>>>> >>>>> >>>> to >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> the nature of the transport/binding mechanism itself. >>>>> >>>>> Duane >>>>> >>>>> Breininger, Kathryn R wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Just an FYI. I see Wikipedia is beginning to work on >>>>>> definitions for >>>>>> SOA as well: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Service-oriented_architecture >>>>>> >>>>>> Kathryn Breininger >>>>>> CENTRAL Project Manager >>>>>> Emerging Technologies >>>>>> Boeing Library Services >>>>>> >>>>>> 425-965-0182 phone >>>>>> 425-237-3491 fax >>>>>> kathryn.r.breininger@boeing.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> How was your service? Please click link below....... >>>>>>> http://socal.web.boeing.com/ssglibsurvey/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >
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