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Subject: Revised Agenda for Wed June 16, 2005

Dial in Info:

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MPID 7263329

8:00 AM PDT to 9:30 AM PDT, Wednesday June 15, 2005

Announcements are turned off and we have up to 35 slots.  If these get 
filled up, please send me an email during the course of the meeting and 
I will make sure the minute taker notes it and we can increase the 
number of lines.

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between topics.


All discussions will be queued by the chair.  To get yourself on the 
queue, supply your name between talkers.  You must be recognized by the 
chair to speak.

Draft Agenda:

1. Welcome, Roll call & determination of quorum - secretary
2. Note taker appointed (those who have volunteered in the past are 
3. Approval of minutes from last meeting (or suggested changes if any).
4. Procedure Items:
   - discussion (possible vote) to allow motions to be made 
electronically between official meetings via the list server.
5. Action items from last meeting:
   - update on Vancouver meeting - Chair.
      We have one proposal for the Opus Hotel in Yaletown.  Opus is a 
big high end and cool (REM stayed there when they recorded their last 
CD, so do many movie people and other musicians).  It is in the 
restaurant and bar district and very near the water.  The prices will be 
available at the conference call.  We may need to confirm by Friday.
   - London for next face to face (Peter Brown proposed)
6.Technical discussions:
   - Peter to introduce Motion on SC (motion, second, discussion, vote 
or electronic vote) See Reference 1 below:
   - Figure 2-1 - use the graphic from Matt for next revision.  Do we do 
this then allow only specific comments to it.  This means that we worry 
about the final expression later, just use it as placeholder to scope 
the RM properly.
8. Editing Team Report (Editors - please chose one of you to give a 
report and lead the discussion)
  - status of comments disposition
  - Issues list report (Don Flinn)
  - (ADD HERE) any specific set of proposed dispositions you feel can be 
quickly resolved.
9. Other (time permitting).

If I have missed something, please send me a message privately.


Reference One:

My motion is:
Given the debate in the TC regarding the correct scoping of the proposed
Reference Model, I move that the TC agree that the concept of 'service
customer' shall not be considered an a normative concept within scope of 
RM. Further discussion of this concept shall be pursued only on this basis
and may be used indicatively in any illustrative appendix to the RM or in
subsequent work on reference architectures but shall not be included as a
normative part of the reference model.

I fear we are running ahead of ourselves and sometimes running in 
circles. I
see the importance and relevance of concepts such as consumer, message, 
to building actual SOA architectures, but - after following the 
exchanges on
the list in the last weeks on this and related issues - I now feel that 
concept is distracting or attention and risks taking further bandwidth.

- I think that if the TC can focus its attention on this motion for a 
of days, we can nail down a key issue that will also help us all clarify 
scope of the RM.
- I would also suggest (this is not a motion!) that at the next TC 
an item for discussion could be whether it would be useful to establish an
RA sub-cttee already/soon that could serve to channel some of these
discussions without shutting them down.

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