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Subject: RE: [soa-rm] Metadata
I'm writing up my review notes at the moment. But this for
me is a key area
as to whether SOA is purely a software thing (as stated in
the RM) or a
wider architectural approach. The example of the
plug-socket I think is a
great example of a physical world SOA, but again
there is no technology
(except some complex PAT) that can understand the
concept of a plug-socket
and obtain power. The discovery is done by
individuals in the same way as
people use ATMs.
So the question is
whether, like Soylent Green, SOA contains people.
Steve
>
-----Original Message-----
> From: Frank McCabe [mailto:frank.mccabe@us.fujitsu.com]
>
Sent: 27 September 2005 19:21
> To: Ken Laskey
> Cc: SOA-RM
>
Subject: Re: [soa-rm] Metadata
>
> Getting slightly back on
topic .. :)
> The point of bringing out the machine processability aspect
is that
> that *is* the intention behind the descriptions of services.
An
> example of a deeply unprocessable description is "this service
will
> do wonders for your X life".
> Even assuming that you can
parse such descriptions, there is no
> foreseable technology that can use
such a description to do discovery
> for instance.
>
Frank
>
> On Sep 27, 2005, at 11:09 AM, Ken Laskey
wrote:
>
> > Today we'll take on the deep meanings of SOA and
tomorrow we can
> > deal with the logic of negation.
>
>
> > Ken
> >
> > On Sep 27, 2005, at 2:05 PM,
Chiusano Joseph wrote:
> >
> >
> >>
>
>> I take that double negative as meaning that he is convinced
that
> >> it *is* redundant.
> >>
> >> Joe
:p
> >>
> >> Joseph Chiusano
> >> Booz Allen
Hamilton
> >>
> >
> >
> >>
>
>>
> >> 700 13th St. NW
> >> Washington, DC
20005
> >> O: 202-508-6514 <= new office number as of
09/19/05
> >> C: 202-251-0731
> >> Visit us online@ http://www.boozallen.com
>
>>
> >>
> >>
> >>> From: Matt
MacKenzie [mailto:mattm@adobe.com]
>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:00 PM
> >>> To:
Ken Laskey
> >>> Cc: SOA-RM
> >>> Subject: RE:
[soa-rm] Metadata
> >>>
> >>> I'm still not
convinced that it is not redundant, even with your
> >>> great
description.
> >>>
> >>> -matt
>
>>>
> >>>
> >>> From: Ken Laskey [mailto:klaskey@mitre.org]
>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 1:56 PM
> >>> To:
Matt MacKenzie
> >>> Cc: SOA-RM
> >>> Subject: Re:
[soa-rm] Metadata
> >>>
> >>> OK, Matt, then I'll
attempt to define machine processibility as
> >>> the
representation of information in a standard, referenceable
> >>>
format that conveys the necessary semantics to enable a machine
>
>>> to fully utilize the information for the purpose for which
the
> >>> information was created. General use in a context
outside its
> >>> original intent may require additional
capabilities which are
> >>> outside the current scope of the
discussion.
> >>>
> >>> Ken
>
>>>
> >>> P.S. Note, I have not taken a position on
whether this is within
> >>> RM scope or not.
>
>>>
> >>> On Sep 27, 2005, at 1:46 PM, Matt MacKenzie
wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
"machine processibility" means nothing. I vote we remove it on
>
>>>> that basis. People have been equating machine
processability
> >>>> with XML as a way of promoting the XML
revolution. The nasty
> >>>> secret is that we were
processing reams of information before
> >>>> XML as
well. We can build parsers for nearly any language.
>
>>>>
> >>>> Lets just remove it.
>
>>>>
> >>>> -matt
> >>>>
>
>>>> From: Ken Laskey [mailto:klaskey@mitre.org]
>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 1:41 PM
>
>>>> To: Duane Nickull; Behera, Prasanta; SOA-RM
>
>>>> Subject: RE: [soa-rm] Metadata
> >>>>
>
>>>> Duane,
> >>>>
> >>>> This
is also somewhat subtle. Is the (desired or realizable)
>
>>>> machine processibility of the metadata a fundamental concept
or
> >>>> is it a nice to have option for the
implementer? The former
> >>>> belongs in the RM, the
latter does not.
> >>>>
> >>>> Do log it but
also continue to discuss.
> >>>>
> >>>>
Ken
> >>>>
> >>>> At 01:16 PM 9/27/2005,
Duane Nickull wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> I would
assert that since our model is abstract, the adjective
> >>>>
"machine process-able" is overstepping the bounds and scope of
>
>>>> the spec. As soon as we say this we are being too
concrete. It
> >>>> is equally feasible that a half
automated system will rely on
> >>>> some human to look at
*some* aspects of a services metadata such
> >>>> as who the
owner is or something to assure them it is secure.
>
>>>>
> >>>> Recommend we log it as an issue and
propose the machine process-
> >>>> able part be
removed.
> >>>>
> >>>> Duane
>
>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> From: Behera,
Prasanta [ mailto:pbehera@visa.com]
>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 9:44 AM
>
>>>> To: SOA-RM
> >>>> Subject: [soa-rm]
Metadata
> >>>>
> >>>>
>
>>>> Is metadata == "machine process-able descriptions"?
>
>>>>
> >>>> In the 09 draft (section 2.2.3), it
seems that we are making
> >>>> that assertion.
>
>>>>
> >>>> I think "machine process-able
description/information" is a
> >>>> component of it.
>
>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
Opinion/thought?
> >>>>
> >>>> (NOTE: This
is not a formal issue against _09 draft).
> >>>>
>
>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>
> >>>>
/Prasanta
> >>>>
> >>>> --
>
>>>>
> >>>>
-------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>>>> --------------
> >>>>
/ Ken
> >>>>
Laskey
\
> >>>> | MITRE Corporation, M/S
H305 phone: 703-983-7934 |
>
>>>> | 7515 Colshire
Drive
fax:
> >>>> 703-983-1379 |
>
>>>> \ McLean VA
> >>>>
22102-7508
/
> >>>>
> >>>>
-------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>>>> ---------------
> >>>>
>
>>>>
> >>>
--------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>>> ----------------------
> >>> Ken Laskey
>
>>> MITRE Corporation, M/S H305 phone: 703-983-7934
>
>>> 7515 Colshire Drive fax: 703-983-1379
> >>> McLean
VA 22102-7508
> >>>
> >
> >
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> --------------------
> > Ken Laskey
> > MITRE
Corporation, M/S H305 phone: 703-983-7934
>
> 7515 Colshire
Drive
fax: 703-983-1379
> > McLean
VA 22102-7508
> >
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