OASIS Mailing List ArchivesView the OASIS mailing list archive below
or browse/search using MarkMail.

 


Help: OASIS Mailing Lists Help | MarkMail Help

soa-rm message

[Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | [Thread Next] | [Date Next] -- [Date Index] | [Thread Index] | [List Home]


Subject: [no subject]


Ron Schuldt
Senior Staff Systems Architect
Lockheed Martin Enterprise Information Systems
P.O. Box 179
Mail Stop DC5694
Denver, CO 80201-0179
303-977-1414
ron.l.schuldt@lmco.com
 


-----Original Message-----
From: Rex Brooks [mailto:rexb@starbourne.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 10:02 AM
To: Frank McCabe; Ken Laskey
Cc: Duane Nickull; Matt MacKenzie; chiusano_joseph@bah.com;
soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org; danny_thornton2@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [soa-rm] RE: Resolving Various Policy Languages with
Ontologies


That's an EXCELLENT idea!

Rex

At 8:13 AM -0700 10/12/05, Frank McCabe wrote:
>Hey, why not have a semantic mapping TC :-)
>
>On Oct 11, 2005, at 7:57 PM, Ken Laskey wrote:
>
>>One thing I have advocated in work outside SOA-RM (yes, Virginia, 
>>there is another life) is the need to understand what are the 
>>concepts that go into a mapping, what are the properties of a 
>>mapping, and (dare I say) what does an ontology that represents 
>>mapping look like.  That very much gets into how one could possibly 
>>do effective mediation.  But that is a whole separate topic.
>>
>>Ken
>>
>>P.S. No, I do not propose we create a Semantic Mapping TC.
>>
>>
>>On Oct 11, 2005, at 7:36 PM, Duane Nickull wrote:
>>
>>>This was the base theorem for the Core Components Technical 
>>>Specification (CCTS) which mandates a set of contexts as a 
>>>qualifier for every semantic entity.  Even the simplest of data 
>>>elements (FirstNameOfPerson) has different semantics if it appears 
>>>in a PO as //BuyerParty/Contact/FirstNameOfPerson vs. 
>>>//SellerParty/Contact/FirstNameOfPerson.  Makes it hard to create 
>>>one size fits all mapping rules.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>This is also why I drew the sinkhole with us staring down at
semantics ;-)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Duane
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>From: Ken Laskey [mailto:klaskey@mitre.org]
>>>Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 12:03 PM
>>>To: Matt MacKenzie
>>>Cc: chiusano_joseph@bah.com; soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org; 
>>>danny_thornton2@yahoo.com
>>>Subject: Re: [soa-rm] RE: Resolving Various Policy Languages with
Ontologies
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Mappings cannot always be complete because, as Frank notes, an 
>>>ontology exists for a purpose (or variations of a similar purpose) 
>>>and does not express all possible knowledge on a subject.  This 
>>>does not mean there isn't value in a partial mapping or mappings 
>>>among a collection of ontologies.  Ideally, if there was 
>>>information missing to which one needed to map, this information 
>>>and corresponding mappings could be formally captured and expand 
>>>the knowledge base for future uses.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Ken
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Oct 11, 2005, at 1:24 PM, Matt MacKenzie wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>I have adapted a proprietary access control language to xacml, and 
>>>merely mapping concepts was not enough.  It was useful, but didn't 
>>>fill in all the blanks.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>-matt
>>>
>>>--
>>>
>>>Matt MacKenzie
>>>
>>>Development Manager, LiveCycle Registry
>>>
>>>Adobe Systems Incorporated
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>
>>>From: Chiusano Joseph <chiusano_joseph@bah.com>
>>>
>>>To: soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org <soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org>; 
>>>Danny Thornton <danny_thornton2@yahoo.com>
>>>
>>>Sent: Tue Oct 11 13:10:51 2005
>>>
>>>Subject: RE: [soa-rm] RE: Resolving Various Policy Languages with
Ontologies
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>><Quote>
>>>
>>>For example, if I have a service that uses XACML policy and another
>>>
>>>service that uses EPAL policy, I could resolve the differences
between
>>>
>>>the two policy languages using an ontology for both policy languages
at
>>>
>>>the policy decision point.
>>>
>>></Quote>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>I believe this has already been stated on some form or another by
others
>>>
>>>who have replied, but this looks to me like the job for a "security
>>>
>>>policy reference model" (or similar name) that contains those
(minimal)
>>>
>>>concepts that are most central to the domain, rather than an
ontology. I
>>>
>>>see an ontology as a semantic model that may be derived using the
>>>
>>>reference model, along with multiple other representations such as
>>>
>>>concrete security architectures, UML class diagrams, E-R diagrams,
etc.
>>>
>>>One single reference model begets all of these and more.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Joe (living in reference model world these days)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Joseph Chiusano
>>>
>>>Booz Allen Hamilton
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>700 13th St. NW
>>>
>>>Washington, DC 20005
>>>
>>>O: 202-508-6514 <= new office number as of 09/19/05
>>>
>>>C: 202-251-0731
>>>
>>>Visit us online@ http://www.boozallen.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>
>>>From: Duane Nickull [mailto:dnickull@adobe.com]
>>>
>>>Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 11:50 AM
>>>
>>>To: Danny Thornton
>>>
>>>Cc: soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org
>>>
>>>Subject: [soa-rm] RE: Resolving Various Policy Languages with
>>>
>>>Ontologies
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Post from Danny Thornton:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>(he mentions the "O" and "S" words)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>;-)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>
>>>From: Danny Thornton [mailto:danny_thornton2@yahoo.com]
>>>
>>>Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 10:26 PM
>>>
>>>To: Duane Nickull
>>>
>>>Subject: Resolving Various Policy Languages with Ontologies
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Hi Duane,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>The following is an e-mail dicussion I would like to have
>>>
>>>with soa-rm group:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>I have been reading WD-SOA-RM-09 to get an idea of the
>>>
>>>terminology/concepts for resolving various policy languages
>>>
>>>in a service oriented architecture. Section
>>>
>>>2.2.3.2 of WD-SOA-RM-09 discusses the limits of description.
>>>
>>>Section 2.3.1.2 states that an ontology can be defined to
>>>
>>>interpret strings and other tokens in the data.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>In the discussions I've had about resolving various policy
>>>
>>>languages in an SOA, I've hijacked the ontology concept and
>>>
>>>applied it as a general concept for resolving differences in
>>>
>>>policy languages.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>For example, if I have a service that uses XACML policy and
>>>
>>>another service that uses EPAL policy, I could resolve the
>>>
>>>differences between the two policy languages using an
>>>
>>>ontology for both policy languages at the policy decision point.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>For section 2.3.1.2 of the WD-SOA-RM-09, does anyone have any
>>>
>>>thoughts on expanding the concept of ontologies beyond the
>>>
>>>service description's data model?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Danny
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>__________________________________
>>>
>>>Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>---
>>>
>>>Ken Laskey
>>>
>>>MITRE Corporation, M/S H305     phone:  703-983-7934
>>>
>>>7515 Colshire Drive                        fax:        703-983-1379
>>>
>>>McLean VA 22102-7508
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>---
>>Ken Laskey
>>MITRE Corporation, M/S H305     phone:  703-983-7934
>>7515 Colshire Drive                        fax:        703-983-1379
>>McLean VA 22102-7508


-- 
Rex Brooks
President, CEO
Starbourne Communications Design
GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison
Berkeley, CA 94702
Tel: 510-849-2309


[Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | [Thread Next] | [Date Next] -- [Date Index] | [Thread Index] | [List Home]