Subject: Re: [soa-rm] RE: [fwsi] RE: [soa-rm] RE: [ebsoa] The real SOA challenge?
Gentlemen, Organizations participate in standards that (1) they find of undeniable value to their products and/or (2) they have adequately controlled so that the standard reflects what they want to do anyway. From the XML/WS world, I'd put XML and XSLT in the first category and would have to think hard about others (but concede others could fit). Prominent ones in the second category are SOAP 1.1 and WSDL 1.1. If the stuff doesn't make it into (1) or (2), then they are likely to languish no matter how good they are technically. As an example, Duane points to WS-RX as where IBM and Microsoft are "actively implementing" but WS-RX is not a standard and has a ways to go. Note, both companies ignore WS-Reliability which is an OASIS Standard. In the "misery loves company" category, I've seen similar email threads over at W3C :-) Ken At 12:33 PM 11/14/2005, Duane Nickull wrote: >John: > >That is not a fair statement to make. IBM and Microsoft are just as >actively implementing many OASIS standards including SAML, XACML, >WS-Security, WS-RX, WS-***... In fact, I find that they have probably >adopted a larger than normal share of OASIS standards. Like any other >company, they are concentrating on implementations that are relevant to >their customers. > >Duane > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: John Hardin [mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org] >Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 9:14 AM >To: Jones, Steve G >Cc: McGregor.Wesley@tbs-sct.gc.ca; email@example.com; >firstname.lastname@example.org; email@example.com; >firstname.lastname@example.org; email@example.com; >firstname.lastname@example.org; email@example.com >Subject: Re: [fwsi] RE: [soa-rm] RE: [ebsoa] The real SOA challenge? > >The step that needs to happen, and in short order, is to get developer >organizations, inside leading software companies, to enable thier >products with the OASIS standards. That is happening slowly, but some of > >the more prominent names are Adobe, Sun, Oracle, Sybase, Cyclone >Commerce, and many others. The major holdouts (IBM and Microsoft) need >to come along, IMO. > >Unfortunately, OASIS doesn't have a marketing arm or business >development group that has enough power to affect the development >lifecycles for these large software companies. It's my impression that >we are creating work that we hope, one day, will be recognized and used >widely.... > >Jones, Steve G wrote: > > I think this is however the real opportunity for this group and others > > within OASIS. There isn't a real clarity (IMO) from any of the >vendors > > around business oriented or abstract oriented SOA, its focused around >what > > their products do today. > > > > The reason I was interested in bringing Capgemini into OASIS is that >this is > > great quality work being developed independently of pushing a product. > > > > In terms of getting the word out, I'm assuming there is a press >release > > already being prepared, and analysts being briefed, around the release >of > > the SOA-RM (whenever that happens). As I've said before I think >SOA-RM has > > created a superb specification, and I've been using it with clients >too. > > > > > > There is more than enough weight on these groups to generate a market >stir > > around a definition of what SOA really is. > > > > Steve > > > > > > > > > >>-----Original Message----- > >>From: McGregor.Wesley@tbs-sct.gc.ca >[mailto:McGregor.Wesley@tbs-sct.gc.ca] > >>Sent: 14 November 2005 16:34 > >>To: firstname.lastname@example.org; email@example.com; firstname.lastname@example.org- > >>email@example.com; >firstname.lastname@example.org; > >>email@example.com; firstname.lastname@example.org > >>Subject: [soa-rm] RE: [ebsoa] The real SOA challenge? > >> > > > > > >>Dave, > >> > > > > > >>To extend your thoughts even further, a lot of large public and >private > >>sector concerns I talk to never look at the OASIS work at all. They >have > >>no idea what goes on here. > >> > > > > > >>The problem is some vendors have the wherewithal to push product and > >>define interoperability as using their product everywhere! > >> > > > > > >>Regards, > >> > > > > > >>Wes > >> > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >>From: David Webber (XML) [mailto:email@example.com] > >>Sent: November 8, 2005 7:45 PM > >>To: firstname.lastname@example.org; email@example.com. soa- > >>firstname.lastname@example.org; email@example.com; semantic- > >>firstname.lastname@example.org; James Bryce Clark > >>Subject: Re: [ebsoa] The real SOA challenge? > >> > > > > > >>Jamie, > >> > > > > > >>The BCM TC has been saying this for two years - and hopefully will >have > >>the > >>OASIS publically approved standard to back it up! > >> > > > > > >>And then the XML2004 Interop we did last year showed exactly how to > >>achieve > >>this using a wide selection of core OASIS-based components. > >> > > > > > >>What bothers me is these pundits ability to completely ignore all the > >>great > >>work OASIS is doing in the field. > >> > > > > > >>It's like its almost beneath them to actually go and download the >white > >>papers and specifications we have and actually take time to read them. > >> > > > > > >>Seems like they only want to read glossy sales brochures and attend > >>webinar > >>product puffs instead... > >> > > > > > >>Thanks, DW > >> > > > > > >>----- Original Message ----- > >>From: "James Bryce Clark" <email@example.com> > >>To: <firstname.lastname@example.org>; <email@example.com. > >>firstname.lastname@example.org>; <email@example.com>; > >><firstname.lastname@example.org> > >>Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 1:00 PM > >>Subject: [ebsoa] The real SOA challenge? > >> > > > > > > > >>> Interesting article from Infoweek on SOA deployment progress: > >>> http://www.internetweek.com/173402859 > >>> I think their underlying point is excellent: the key gating >issue > >> > >>is > >> > >>>not the XML tech, but rather, the process change, deployment and >finding > >>>issues involved in assembling a meaningful set of ambient services >that > >>>sufficiently compose into useful transactions. that > >>> Regards Jamie > >>> > >>>~ James Bryce Clark > >>>~ Director, Standards Development, OASIS > >>>~ email@example.com > >>> > >>> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > This message contains information that may be privileged or >confidential and is the property of the Capgemini Group. It is intended >only for the person to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended >recipient, you are not authorized to read, print, retain, copy, >disseminate, distribute, or use this message or any part thereof. If >you receive this message in error, please notify the sender immediately >and delete all copies of this message. > > > > > > > >-- >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >| john c hardin >| Chief Technology Officer >| http://www.maphin.net >| 606.598.7353 office >| 606.813.4316 cell >| mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org >| >| Chair - OASIS ebSOA Technical Committee >| http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=ebsoa >| >| >| "The new electronic interdependence recreates the world in the >| image of a global village." >| >| Marshall McLuhan, "Gutenberg Galaxy", 1962 >|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- / Ken Laskey \ | MITRE Corporation, M/S H305 phone: 703-983-7934 | | 7515 Colshire Drive fax: 703-983-1379 | \ McLean VA 22102-7508 / ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------