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Subject: RE: [soa-rm] What Is A "Metaservice"?


+6

Kind Regards,
Joseph Chiusano
Associate
Booz Allen Hamilton
 
700 13th St. NW, Suite 1100
Washington, DC 20005
O: 202-508-6514  
C: 202-251-0731
Visit us online@ http://www.boozallen.com
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom Merkle [mailto:TMerkle@capwin.org] 
> Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 1:43 PM
> To: Michael Stiefel; Rex Brooks; Ken Laskey; Frank McCabe
> Cc: soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org; Chiusano Joseph
> Subject: RE: [soa-rm] What Is A "Metaservice"?
> 
> +4
> 
> 
> Regards,
>  
> Tom Merkle
>  
> CapWIN:        www.capwin.org 
> Phone:        (301) 614-3720
> Cell Phone:   (240) 375-1966
> Fax:          (301) 614-0581
> e-mail:        tmerkle@capwin.org
>  
> CapWIN
> 6305 Ivy Lane Suite 300
> Capital Office Park
> Greenbelt, MD 20770
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Stiefel [mailto:development@reliablesoftware.com] 
> Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 12:51 PM
> To: Rex Brooks; Ken Laskey; Frank McCabe
> Cc: soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org; Chiusano Joseph
> Subject: Re: [soa-rm] What Is A "Metaservice"?
> 
> Since we all being so agreeable today.
> 
> +3
> 
> Michael
> 
> At 12:49 PM 2/10/2006, Rex Brooks wrote:
> >+2
> >
> >At 12:30 PM -0500 2/10/06, Ken Laskey wrote:
> >>as typical, +1
> >>
> >>On Feb 10, 2006, at 12:26 PM, Frank McCabe wrote:
> >>
> >>>I personally see lots of potential for services about 
> services. The 
> >>>classic domain being service management.
> >>>However, I also fail to see why we need to do anything about it :) 
> >>>All the pieces needed to support management and other similar meta 
> >>>cases <duck/> is already there.
> >>>Frank
> >>>
> >>>On Feb 10, 2006, at 8:45 AM, Ken Laskey wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>The problem of metaservice as you've defined it is that you are 
> >>>>assuming the underlying capability is only used to do 
> something with
> 
> >>>>another service.  Now while that may be the only use that makes 
> >>>>sense for a particular metaservice, in SOA we specifically do not 
> >>>>make assumptions on who future users may be or the 
> context in which 
> >>>>they will find that service useful.  Would we really get 
> value out 
> >>>>of arguing the conditions under which a service is a 
> metaservice and
> 
> >>>>when it is not?
> >>>>
> >>>>Ken
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>On Feb 10, 2006, at 11:32 AM, Chiusano Joseph wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>From: Rex Brooks [mailto:rexb@starbourne.com]
> >>>>>>Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 11:10 AM
> >>>>>>To: Ken Laskey; Chiusano Joseph
> >>>>>>Cc: soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org
> >>>>>>Subject: Re: [soa-rm] What Is A "Metaservice"?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Why do we need a term for service metadata?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Exactly. That was my motivation for suggesting a different 
> >>>>>definition for "metaservice".
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Joe
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Joseph Chiusano
> >>>>>Associate
> >>>>>Booz Allen Hamilton
> >>>>>
> >>>>>700 13th St. NW, Suite 1100
> >>>>>Washington, DC 20005
> >>>>>O: 202-508-6514
> >>>>>C: 202-251-0731
> >>>>>Visit us online@ http://www.boozallen.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Rex
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>At 9:55 AM -0500 2/10/06, Ken Laskey wrote:
> >>>>>>>I typically cause physical damage to people who say metadata
> >>>>>>is about
> >>>>>>>data. (OK, not really.)  That is a circular definition that
> >>>>>>tells you
> >>>>>>>nothing.  In our context, metadata is a subset of
> >>>>>>information related
> >>>>>>>to an entity, including parts of the entity, that are 
> needed for 
> >>>>>>>a particular purpose.  That means metadata can also be 
> >>>>>>>descriptive information about a service.  The early 
> SOA-RM drafts
> 
> >>>>>>>(I
> >>>>>>think 07 and
> >>>>>>>before) had an appendix on metadata
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>As far as metaservice, the description of service supports a
> >>>>>>hierarchy
> >>>>>>>or combination of services, including services working 
> with and 
> >>>>>>>on other services.  To have metaservice as a useful 
> concept, you 
> >>>>>>>would need a base level SERVICE and then things acting on it.  
> >>>>>>>The identification of SERVICE will be use dependent and the 
> >>>>>>>source of endless, fruitless arguments.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Ken
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>On Feb 10, 2006, at 8:34 AM, Chiusano Joseph wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>This may potentially be pertinent for our Reference
> >>>>>>Architecture work:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>In a recent entry[1] in his blog called "Focus on
> >>>>>>Repositories", David
> >>>>>>>>Linthicum mentions the term "metaservice". Quote (see end of
> >>>>>>>>[1]):
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>"Since data about data is called metadata, I call data
> >>>>>>about services
> >>>>>>>>metaservices. A term we may be hearing more about in the
> >>>>>>future, and
> >>>>>>>>what will exist in these repositories."
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>I differ with Dave on this, and see "metaservice" as being
> >>>>>>something
> >>>>>>>>different. Here's my comment on his blog:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>><Comment>
> >>>>>>>>On the following: "Since data about data is called 
> metadata, I 
> >>>>>>>>call data about services metaservices":
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Since metadata is "data about data", I wonder if a
> >>>>>>metaservice should
> >>>>>>>>really be considered a "service about services"? If so, what 
> >>>>>>>>would that really mean? Perhaps it's a service that 
> "sits above"
> >>>>>>a number of
> >>>>>>>>other services and provides, well, services about (or
> >>>>>>>>for?) those services that, upon invocation, returns various 
> >>>>>>>>details about those services, or perhaps performs 
> services upon 
> >>>>>>>>the
> >>>>>>services
> >>>>>>>>themselves (such as aggregating them at design time).
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Just thinking out loud here...
> >>>>>>>></Comment>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Comments on my comment?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Joe
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>><http://blogs.ittoolbox.com/eai/cto/archives/007469.asp>[1]
> >>>>>>>>http://blogs.ittoolbox.com/eai/cto/archives/007469.asp
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Joseph Chiusano
> >>>>>>>>Associate
> >>>>>>>>Booz Allen Hamilton
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>700 13th St. NW, Suite 1100
> >>>>>>>>Washington, DC 20005
> >>>>>>>>O: 202-508-6514
> >>>>>>>>C: 202-251-0731
> >>>>>>>>Visit us online@ 
> >>>>>>>><http://www.boozallen.com/>http://www.boozallen.com
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>---
> >>>>>>>Ken Laskey
> >>>>>>>MITRE Corporation, M/S H305     phone:  703-983-7934
> >>>>>>>7515 Colshire Drive                        fax:
> 703-983-1379
> >>>>>>>McLean VA 22102-7508
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>--
> >>>>>>Rex Brooks
> >>>>>>President, CEO
> >>>>>>Starbourne Communications Design
> >>>>>>GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison
> >>>>>>Berkeley, CA 94702
> >>>>>>Tel: 510-849-2309
> >>>>
> >>>>---
> >>>>Ken Laskey
> >>>>MITRE Corporation, M/S H305     phone:  703-983-7934
> >>>>7515 Colshire Drive                        fax:        
> 703-983-1379
> >>>>McLean VA 22102-7508
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
> >>--------------------
> >>Ken Laskey
> >>MITRE Corporation, M/S H305     phone:  703-983-7934
> >>7515 Colshire Drive                        fax:        703-983-1379
> >>McLean VA 22102-7508
> >
> >
> >--
> >Rex Brooks
> >President, CEO
> >Starbourne Communications Design
> >GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison
> >Berkeley, CA 94702
> >Tel: 510-849-2309
> 
> 
> 
> 


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