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Subject: RE: [soa-rm] What Is A "Metaservice"?


That reminds me...perhaps we need to address reliable messaging in our
RA.

Joe

Joseph Chiusano
Associate
Booz Allen Hamilton
 
700 13th St. NW, Suite 1100
Washington, DC 20005
O: 202-508-6514  
C: 202-251-0731
Visit us online@ http://www.boozallen.com
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chiusano Joseph [mailto:chiusano_joseph@bah.com] 
> Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 1:46 PM
> To: soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: RE: [soa-rm] What Is A "Metaservice"?
> 
> +6
> 
> Kind Regards,
> Joseph Chiusano
> Associate
> Booz Allen Hamilton
>  
> 700 13th St. NW, Suite 1100
> Washington, DC 20005
> O: 202-508-6514
> C: 202-251-0731
> Visit us online@ http://www.boozallen.com
>  
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Tom Merkle [mailto:TMerkle@capwin.org]
> > Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 1:43 PM
> > To: Michael Stiefel; Rex Brooks; Ken Laskey; Frank McCabe
> > Cc: soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org; Chiusano Joseph
> > Subject: RE: [soa-rm] What Is A "Metaservice"?
> > 
> > +4
> > 
> > 
> > Regards,
> >  
> > Tom Merkle
> >  
> > CapWIN:        www.capwin.org 
> > Phone:        (301) 614-3720
> > Cell Phone:   (240) 375-1966
> > Fax:          (301) 614-0581
> > e-mail:        tmerkle@capwin.org
> >  
> > CapWIN
> > 6305 Ivy Lane Suite 300
> > Capital Office Park
> > Greenbelt, MD 20770
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Michael Stiefel [mailto:development@reliablesoftware.com]
> > Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 12:51 PM
> > To: Rex Brooks; Ken Laskey; Frank McCabe
> > Cc: soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org; Chiusano Joseph
> > Subject: Re: [soa-rm] What Is A "Metaservice"?
> > 
> > Since we all being so agreeable today.
> > 
> > +3
> > 
> > Michael
> > 
> > At 12:49 PM 2/10/2006, Rex Brooks wrote:
> > >+2
> > >
> > >At 12:30 PM -0500 2/10/06, Ken Laskey wrote:
> > >>as typical, +1
> > >>
> > >>On Feb 10, 2006, at 12:26 PM, Frank McCabe wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>I personally see lots of potential for services about
> > services. The
> > >>>classic domain being service management.
> > >>>However, I also fail to see why we need to do anything 
> about it :) 
> > >>>All the pieces needed to support management and other 
> similar meta 
> > >>>cases <duck/> is already there.
> > >>>Frank
> > >>>
> > >>>On Feb 10, 2006, at 8:45 AM, Ken Laskey wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>>The problem of metaservice as you've defined it is that you are 
> > >>>>assuming the underlying capability is only used to do
> > something with
> > 
> > >>>>another service.  Now while that may be the only use that makes 
> > >>>>sense for a particular metaservice, in SOA we 
> specifically do not 
> > >>>>make assumptions on who future users may be or the
> > context in which
> > >>>>they will find that service useful.  Would we really get
> > value out
> > >>>>of arguing the conditions under which a service is a
> > metaservice and
> > 
> > >>>>when it is not?
> > >>>>
> > >>>>Ken
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>On Feb 10, 2006, at 11:32 AM, Chiusano Joseph wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>-----Original Message-----
> > >>>>>>From: Rex Brooks [mailto:rexb@starbourne.com]
> > >>>>>>Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 11:10 AM
> > >>>>>>To: Ken Laskey; Chiusano Joseph
> > >>>>>>Cc: soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org
> > >>>>>>Subject: Re: [soa-rm] What Is A "Metaservice"?
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>Why do we need a term for service metadata?
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>Exactly. That was my motivation for suggesting a different 
> > >>>>>definition for "metaservice".
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>Joe
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>Joseph Chiusano
> > >>>>>Associate
> > >>>>>Booz Allen Hamilton
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>700 13th St. NW, Suite 1100
> > >>>>>Washington, DC 20005
> > >>>>>O: 202-508-6514
> > >>>>>C: 202-251-0731
> > >>>>>Visit us online@ http://www.boozallen.com
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>Rex
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>At 9:55 AM -0500 2/10/06, Ken Laskey wrote:
> > >>>>>>>I typically cause physical damage to people who say metadata
> > >>>>>>is about
> > >>>>>>>data. (OK, not really.)  That is a circular definition that
> > >>>>>>tells you
> > >>>>>>>nothing.  In our context, metadata is a subset of
> > >>>>>>information related
> > >>>>>>>to an entity, including parts of the entity, that are
> > needed for
> > >>>>>>>a particular purpose.  That means metadata can also be 
> > >>>>>>>descriptive information about a service.  The early
> > SOA-RM drafts
> > 
> > >>>>>>>(I
> > >>>>>>think 07 and
> > >>>>>>>before) had an appendix on metadata
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>As far as metaservice, the description of service supports a
> > >>>>>>hierarchy
> > >>>>>>>or combination of services, including services working
> > with and
> > >>>>>>>on other services.  To have metaservice as a useful
> > concept, you
> > >>>>>>>would need a base level SERVICE and then things 
> acting on it.  
> > >>>>>>>The identification of SERVICE will be use dependent and the 
> > >>>>>>>source of endless, fruitless arguments.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>Ken
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>On Feb 10, 2006, at 8:34 AM, Chiusano Joseph wrote:
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>This may potentially be pertinent for our Reference
> > >>>>>>Architecture work:
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>In a recent entry[1] in his blog called "Focus on
> > >>>>>>Repositories", David
> > >>>>>>>>Linthicum mentions the term "metaservice". Quote (see end of
> > >>>>>>>>[1]):
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>"Since data about data is called metadata, I call data
> > >>>>>>about services
> > >>>>>>>>metaservices. A term we may be hearing more about in the
> > >>>>>>future, and
> > >>>>>>>>what will exist in these repositories."
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>I differ with Dave on this, and see "metaservice" as being
> > >>>>>>something
> > >>>>>>>>different. Here's my comment on his blog:
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>><Comment>
> > >>>>>>>>On the following: "Since data about data is called
> > metadata, I
> > >>>>>>>>call data about services metaservices":
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>Since metadata is "data about data", I wonder if a
> > >>>>>>metaservice should
> > >>>>>>>>really be considered a "service about services"? If 
> so, what 
> > >>>>>>>>would that really mean? Perhaps it's a service that
> > "sits above"
> > >>>>>>a number of
> > >>>>>>>>other services and provides, well, services about (or
> > >>>>>>>>for?) those services that, upon invocation, returns various 
> > >>>>>>>>details about those services, or perhaps performs
> > services upon
> > >>>>>>>>the
> > >>>>>>services
> > >>>>>>>>themselves (such as aggregating them at design time).
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>Just thinking out loud here...
> > >>>>>>>></Comment>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>Comments on my comment?
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>Joe
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>><http://blogs.ittoolbox.com/eai/cto/archives/007469.asp>[1]
> > >>>>>>>>http://blogs.ittoolbox.com/eai/cto/archives/007469.asp
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>Joseph Chiusano
> > >>>>>>>>Associate
> > >>>>>>>>Booz Allen Hamilton
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>700 13th St. NW, Suite 1100
> > >>>>>>>>Washington, DC 20005
> > >>>>>>>>O: 202-508-6514
> > >>>>>>>>C: 202-251-0731
> > >>>>>>>>Visit us online@
> > >>>>>>>><http://www.boozallen.com/>http://www.boozallen.com
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>---
> > >>>>>>>Ken Laskey
> > >>>>>>>MITRE Corporation, M/S H305     phone:  703-983-7934
> > >>>>>>>7515 Colshire Drive                        fax:
> > 703-983-1379
> > >>>>>>>McLean VA 22102-7508
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>--
> > >>>>>>Rex Brooks
> > >>>>>>President, CEO
> > >>>>>>Starbourne Communications Design
> > >>>>>>GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison
> > >>>>>>Berkeley, CA 94702
> > >>>>>>Tel: 510-849-2309
> > >>>>
> > >>>>---
> > >>>>Ken Laskey
> > >>>>MITRE Corporation, M/S H305     phone:  703-983-7934
> > >>>>7515 Colshire Drive                        fax:        
> > 703-983-1379
> > >>>>McLean VA 22102-7508
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>------------------------------------------------------------
> > ----------
> > >>--------------------
> > >>Ken Laskey
> > >>MITRE Corporation, M/S H305     phone:  703-983-7934
> > >>7515 Colshire Drive                        fax:        
> 703-983-1379
> > >>McLean VA 22102-7508
> > >
> > >
> > >--
> > >Rex Brooks
> > >President, CEO
> > >Starbourne Communications Design
> > >GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison
> > >Berkeley, CA 94702
> > >Tel: 510-849-2309
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 


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