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Subject: RE: [soa-rm] [For Issue #525] RE: [soa-rm] Groups - ProposedSOA-RM Relationship Names (SOA-RM Relationships Names.xls) uploaded


I suspect that no matter how specific or coherent a relationship we 
define, the very nature of what a relationship is, in terms of 
modeling and logic, leads pretty inescapably to requiring RDF to 
express it.

I would not want to start on that path unless we could a thorough job 
of it separately, not just add a touch of it to what we have done so 
far.

Cheers,
Rex

At 1:39 PM -0400 5/1/06, Chiusano Joseph wrote:
><Quote>
>The *only* thing we might do is define a set of coherent relationships
>and use them in our diagrams.
></Quote>
>
>Yes, that is what I recommend. It may have been poorly worded, but the
>intent of the issue (as I discussed it with the submitter) was to simply
>provide clear, understandable relationship names - not ones specific to
>OWL.
>
>Joe
>
>Joseph Chiusano
>Associate
>Booz Allen Hamilton
>
>700 13th St. NW, Suite 1100
>Washington, DC 20005
>O: 202-508-6514 
>C: 202-251-0731
>Visit us online@ http://www.boozallen.com
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Frank McCabe [mailto:frank.mccabe@us.fujitsu.com]
>Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 1:36 PM
>To: Rex Brooks
>Cc: Chiusano Joseph; soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org
>Subject: Re: [soa-rm] [For Issue #525] RE: [soa-rm] Groups - Proposed
>SOA-RM Relationship Names (SOA-RM Relationships Names.xls) uploaded
>
>I do not think that we should go anywhere near this. We did not charter
>ourselves to do an OWL ontology.
>The *only* thing we might do is define a set of coherent relationships
>and use them in our diagrams.
>Frank
>
>On May 1, 2006, at 10:03 AM, Rex Brooks wrote:
>
>>  Yup,
>>
>>  If we are going to provide relationship names to accommodate OWL, we
>>  need to be specific about which version of OWL we want to support or
>>  CAN support, given the abstract nature of the Reference Model.
>>
>>  I would be happy with OWL DL, less happy with OWL Lite, and opposed to
>
>>  OWL Full. Going into the reasons is something we should take up in the
>
>>  f2f, because it is too lengthy for an email. However, I would prefer
>>  to put this on hold for a v2.0 which I suspect is almost unavoidable,
>>  though one hoped it would not be given sufficient abstraction.
>>
>>  That said, I would select relationship names directly from the realm
>>  of RDF in general and RDF Schema in particular and, for me, OWL DL and
>
>>  not make up any new ones and I would start with extremely basic, very
>>  abstract, relationships and not use any terms that are open to
>>  interpretation. In other words, I would try to start with compliance
>>  with first-order logic. Going beyond basic classes and properties to
>>  subClassOf and subPropertyOf is about as far as I would go. Otherwise
>>  we open the door to a purely endless exercise in futility. It would
>>  take a lot of work and I don't think we have time for it in this
>>  version.
>>
>>  This is probably not a good idea.
>>
>>  I would prefer to see it be a separate specification, with its own set
>
>>  of requirements starting with mereology from general to specific,
>>  where you define things in the isPartOf relationship not the
>>  consistsOf relationship.  The difference is that there are some
>>  accepted rules for mereology, and it works with formal logic. If we
>>  are going to accommodate OWL now we need to make sure we are not
>>  setting ourselves up for a bunch of logical contradictions by going
>>  full steam ahead before looking at the landscape and figuring out what
>
>>  kind of roadmap we need.
>>
>>  I think the spreadsheet is a good way to get concepts out where you
>>  can look at them and pick away at them. I just don't think this is
>>  likely to get well baked enough to include in this round, and perhaps
>>  ought to be its own specification, a SOA ontology based on the RM.
>>  That would give us plenty of time to noodle and boil this down to
>>  workability.
>>
>>  Regards,
>>  Rex
>>
>>
>>
>>  At 11:05 AM -0400 5/1/06, Chiusano Joseph wrote:
>>>  I've updated the subject for this thread to reflect the Issue #. Any
>  >> thoughts on the proposed relationship names?
>>>
>>>  Joe
>>>
>>>  Joseph Chiusano
>>>  Associate
>>>  Booz Allen Hamilton
>>>
>>>  700 13th St. NW, Suite 1100
>>>  Washington, DC 20005
>>>  O: 202-508-6514 C: 202-251-0731
>>>  Visit us online@ http://www.boozallen.com
>>>
>>>  -----Original Message-----
>>>  From: chiusano_joseph@bah.com [mailto:chiusano_joseph@bah.com]
>>>  Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 8:52 PM
>>>  To: soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org
>>>  Subject: [soa-rm] Groups - Proposed SOA-RM Relationship Names (SOA-RM
>
>>>  Relationships Names.xls) uploaded
>>>
>>>  The document named Proposed SOA-RM Relationship Names (SOA-RM
>>>  Relationships
>>>  Names.xls) has been submitted by Mr. Joseph Chiusano to the OASIS SOA
>
>>>  Reference Model TC document repository.
>>>
>>>  Document Description:
>>>  This is related to issue #525, which described "the potential
>>>  creation of an OWL ontology for SOA-RM to be considered as an upper
>>>  ontology for different architectures guided by SOA-RM, in order to
>>>  provide semantic interoperability between these architectures and
>>>  their implementations (instances), once they are SOA-RM based.". The
>>>  submitter expressed how the lack of relationship names in our spec
>>>  inhibited this.
>>>
>>>  I have worked with the submitter and Ken Laskey to create this
>>>  spreadsheet of proposed relationship names for all figures that
>>>  contain directed relationships. Please review and comment; you may
>>>  wish to use the spreadsheet row # when referring to specific
>>>  relationships. We have provided 2 sets of proposed names for each
>>>  relationship (except the final
>>>  one) - one primary, and one alternate.
>>>
>>>  Please also keep in mind that some of the proposed relationship names
>
>>>  may bring with them minor alterations in the relationships
>>>  themselves.
>>>
>>>  Thanks,
>>>  Joe
>>>
>>>  View Document Details:
>>>  http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/soa-rm/document.php?
>>>  documen
>>>  t_id=17877
>>>
>>>  Download Document:
>>>  http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/soa-rm/download.php/
>>>  17877/S
>>>  OA-RM%20Relationships%20Names.xls
>>>
>>>
>>>  PLEASE NOTE:  If the above links do not work for you, your email
>>>  application may be breaking the link into two pieces.  You may be
>>>  able to copy and paste the entire link address into the address field
>
>>>  of your web browser.
>>>
>>>  -OASIS Open Administration
>>
>>
>>  --
>>  Rex Brooks
>>  President, CEO
>>  Starbourne Communications Design
>>  GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison
>>  Berkeley, CA 94702
>>  Tel: 510-849-2309


-- 
Rex Brooks
President, CEO
Starbourne Communications Design
GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison
Berkeley, CA 94702
Tel: 510-849-2309


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