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Subject: RE: [soa-rm] Microsoft SOA Reference Model
Sorry - there was a semantic mismatch here. The definition is not of SOA 2.0 (which I agree is a dead term), but rather version 2.0 of their definition of SOA. So ... I'm still concerned about that document ; ) -----Original Message----- From: Duane Nickull [mailto:dnickull@adobe.com] Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 1:26 PM To: Bashioum, Christopher D; Tom Merkle; Rex Brooks; Danny Thornton Cc: soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org Subject: Re: [soa-rm] Microsoft SOA Reference Model SOA 2.0 is a dead term. Even wikipedia denounces it as marketing hype. Gartner backed off. Duane On 4/23/07 8:22 AM, "Bashioum, Christopher D" <cbashioum@mitre.org> wrote: > There are two areas of overlap that concern me. The one is their > definition of SOA 2.0. It should be based on the RM definition, and > then build on it as needed. Right now, it seems to be a conflicting > definition. > > The other one is the SOA Ontologies. I see that they are using the RM > as one of their documents, but they should use the RM as an RM, and > again build from that. They can take the elements and relationships > identified and defined in the RM and describe them formally using OWL, > and then start building on that. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom Merkle [mailto:TMerkle@capwin.org] > Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 9:28 PM > To: Rex Brooks; Danny Thornton > Cc: soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org > Subject: RE: [soa-rm] Microsoft SOA Reference Model > > The Open Group is working on or in the process of standing up many SOA > sub-committees. I am the liaison between our group and the Open Group. > I believe the two organizations complement each other, although there > is some overlap. I do not see any problems with the overlap at this > time. Please look at their site: http://www.opengroup.org/projects/soa/ > to get an idea of the various SOA areas in their interest. > > Regards, > > Tom Merkle > > Cell Phone: (240) 375-1966 > > e-mail: tmerkle@capwin.org and thomas.merkle@usdoj.gov > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rex Brooks [mailto:rexb@starbourne.com] > Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 9:05 PM > To: Danny Thornton; Rex Brooks > Cc: soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org > Subject: Re: [soa-rm] Microsoft SOA Reference Model > > Sorry Danny, > > Not only do I NOT have a link to something > resembling a Reference Architecture, I was being > slightly facetious. That was the intent of my > closing statement about the need to retrofit the > abstractions. If you look at IBM's SOA materials > by specifying "SOA Reference Architecture" in the > IBM search box, it consists almost entirely of > "success stories." I suspect that if the largest > IT vendors were challenged to produce an RA, they > would probably develop Reference Implementations. > > IBM certainly isn't alone in this myopic > concentration on selling product at the expense > of genuine interoperability across platforms and > products. I could have added Sun and many other > vendors. The point is that even if one were to > cobble or kluge together a system such as I > described, getting it to actually work, as in > being functionally "interoperable," would be a > challenge. > > Cheers, > Rex > > At 1:58 PM -0700 4/22/07, Danny Thornton wrote: >> That would make a SOA reference implementation. I >> spent a few minutes trying to get at a reference >> architecture behind the products and I didn't find it. >> Do you have a link to something resembling a >> reference architecture? >> >> Danny >> >> --- Rex Brooks <rexb@starbourne.com> wrote: >> >>> No problem Danny, >>> >>> Åll anyone needs to is to just wrap webMethods >>> SOA Fabric (they are now owned by Software AG) >>> around Systinet's SOA Governance (a UDDI >>> Regitsry), and around IBM's Enterprise Service >>> Bus and serve it up on a Sharepoint Platter, >>> y'think? >>> >>> Of course, you will need to retrofit the >>> abstractions. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Rex >>> >>> At 10:37 AM -0700 4/22/07, Danny Thornton wrote: >>>> From what I saw of John's architecture, it has a >>> long >>>> way to go. I was also thinking about responding >>> and >>>> offering an invitation to John to join the RA work. >>>> >>>> Another option: While OASIS is open and encourages >>> a >>>> broad spectrum of coorporation, it would be >>>> entertaining to see if any individual, company, or >>>> organization could produce a better SOA Reference >>>> Architecture than the OASIS SOA RA group. >>>> >>>> Danny >>>> >>>> --- Duane Nickull <dnickull@adobe.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I would honestly love for John E. to come and >>> work >>>>> with us on this. He is a >>>>> smart guy and would be able to contribute >>>>> substantially to the project. >>>>> >>>>> Duane >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 4/22/07 8:35 AM, "Ken Laskey" >>> <klaskey@mitre.org> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I think this should really give impetus to our >>> RA >>>>> work. People complain it is >>>>>> too abstract but I've gotten people to agree >>> that >>>>> one of the major problems >>>>>> has been that no one has agreed on the >>> "obvious". >>>>> Now we need to give them >>>>>> that next step. >>>>>> >>>>>> On to Pasadena... >>>>>> >>>>>> Ken >>>>>> >>>>>> On Apr 22, 2007, at 11:06 AM, Duane Nickull >>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I just posted a comment on the blog. It is >>> no >>>>> where near abstract as it >>>>>>> claims. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Duane >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 4/21/07 4:00 PM, "Chiusano, Joseph" >>>>> <chiusano_joseph@bah.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Passing along this SOA reference model news: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> http://www.infoq.com/news/2007/04/ms-soa-reference-model >>>>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> <http://www.infoq.com/news/2007/04/ms-soa-reference-model> >>>>>>>> "Microsoft SOA Reference Model, Initial >>> Draft >>>>> of the Introductory Chapter" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The author, John Evdemon, is the co-chair >>> of >>>>> the BPEL TC. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Joe >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------- >>>>>> ------------ >>>>>> Ken Laskey >>>>>> MITRE Corporation, M/S H305 >>>>> phone: 703-983-7934 >>>>>> 7515 Colshire Drive >>> fax: >>>>> 703-983-1379 >>>>>> McLean VA 22102-7508 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> __________________________________________________ >>>> Do You Yahoo!? >>>> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam >>> protection around >>>> http://mail.yahoo.com >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Rex Brooks >>> President, CEO >>> Starbourne Communications Design >>> GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison >>> Berkeley, CA 94702 >>> Tel: 510-849-2309 >>> >> >> >> __________________________________________________ >> Do You Yahoo!? >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >> http://mail.yahoo.com >
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