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Subject: Re: [soa-rm] new topic for discussion: shared services


So if I can try to interpret between the Bob and Michael,  it is not the consumer who does specific managing but managing of the service is beneficial to the consumer and it is done as necessary, by the provider.

Does this cover the point?

As for the service owner being different from the service provider, this difference is covered in the RM and the RAF.  The RM discusses this in terms of the provider of the capability and the provider of the service:

  1. Note that while an SOA service brings together needs and capabilities, the provider of the

  2. underlying capability may not be the same entity that eventually provides the service which

  3. accesses that capability. In reality, the entity with the domain expertise to create, maintain, and

  4. evolve a given capability may not have the expertise or the desire to create, maintain, and evolve

  5. its service access. 

The RAF defines the provider and the owner as separate roles that may, but is not necessarily, the same entity.

Ken
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. Kenneth Laskey
MITRE Corporation, M/S F510          phone: 703-983-7934
7515 Colshire Drive                           fax: 703-983-1379
McLean VA 22102-7508

On Mar 6, 2015, at 12:13 PM, Natale, Bob <RNATALE@mitre.org> wrote:

Hi Michael,
 
Major disconnect somewhere – the statement I proposed (just as an example):
“Managed Service – A service that is managed by a provider on behalf of the service consumer(s), directly or indirectly” does not in any way imply your interpretation of it to mean  that the consumer will “manage the service provided to it by a 3rd party – the owner of the service” … indeed, it says the opposite, and does so fairly clearly, I believe, with these two phrases in particular “managed by a provider” “on behalf of the service consumer” … is that not clear…? (Or am I the one guilty of mis-reading the text?)
 
While I am here, two more points:
 
- Your follow up also implies that the provider that manages the service in the “Managed Service” case is also the “service owner” … it might be, but need not be … i.e., it is not unheard of for a service owner to contract with another party to manage the service on its behalf (and, therefore, also on behalf of the service consumers).
 
- Let me preemptively clarify the “directly or indirectly” part of my (example) definition of “Managed Service” … in some cases, individual service consumers contract directly with the managed service provider … in other cases, that service is provided to the consumers indirectly, as when an enterprise contracts with the managed service provider on behalf of the enterprise users (i.e., the service consumers).
 
Avanti,
BobN
 
From: Mike Poulin [mailto:mpoulin@usa.com] 
Sent: Friday, March 06, 2015 12:00 PM
To: Natale, Bob
Cc: Laskey, Ken; soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: Re: RE: [soa-rm] new topic for discussion: shared services
 
HI Bob,
 an _expression_ "“A service that is managed by a provider on behalf of the service consumer(s), directly or indirectly”" does not make sense to me. Consumer cannot and may not manage the service provided to it by a 3rd party - the owner of the service. A consumer uses the service only; provider manages its service always (supposed to). I hope, you agree with this.
 
What in your opinion means a “Shared Service”? Shared by whom?
 
- Michael
 
 
Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2015 at 9:23 PM
From: "Natale, Bob" <RNATALE@mitre.org>
To: "Mike Poulin" <mpoulin@usa.com>, "Laskey, Ken" <klaskey@mitre.org>
Cc: "soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org" <soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org>
Subject: RE: [soa-rm] new topic for discussion: shared services
Hi Mike,
 
Nope, I was not suggesting a rehashing of old discussions which _resolved_ definitions … just recommending that any new definitions be placed in the context of those existing definitions for clarity and completeness, esp. for those who might not have tuned in on the earlier discussions/resolutions.
 
“Managed Services” is a good example of my point – of course, every service (instance) should be managed (if only they all were! :), but the term is used more often to mean something like “A service that is managed by a provider on behalf of the service consumer(s), directly or indirectly” … a “Managed Service” might or might not be (but usually is) also a “Shared Service”.
 
A simple table of closely relevant terms that establish the overall context for “Shared Services” and “Enterprise Shared Services” would suffice in my judgment … but I won’t belabor the point further.
 
Avanti,
BobN
 
From: soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org [mailto:soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org] On Behalf Of Mike Poulin
Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2015 9:46 AM
To: Laskey, Ken
Cc: soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: Re: [soa-rm] new topic for discussion: shared services
 
I'm also interested in discussing the topic of "shared services" (though think it is trivial from specification/ontology perspectives).
 
However, I am am afraid to open a can of worms that the spectrum of sensless but sound names (set around word 'service') are moving around (8 to 12 as Bob counted) .
 
We discussed some of them before, like 'Application Service', and concluded that an application even with a Web Service interface is not a service, and so on. Have we forgotten those discusstions and have to repeat them? [ “composite service” - I have published re-defined/updated Principles of Service Orientation based on RAF and RM and eliminated a priniciple that allowed one service to be composed by other services as contradicting other SO principles. Also, a “managed service” - which service should not managed? ]
 
In my recent practice, I led an establishment of shared business services in on of the major UK banks. I can share the lessons learnt if your are interested.
 
Regards,
- Michael Poulin
 
 
Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2015 at 3:47 AM
From: "Ken Laskey" <klaskey@mitre.org>
To: soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: [soa-rm] new topic for discussion: shared services
All,
 
The terms “shared services” or “enterprise shared services” often turn up in my world but the concepts are typically ill-defined, the criteria  are nonexistent, and the ramifications have not been explored.  Would this group be interested in adding this as another topic of discussion (and possibly a future document) along side our current SOA ontology work?
 
Note: a reasonable question is what do I mean by these terms, but I’d like to establish interest rather than just generating spam.
 
Thanks,
 
Ken
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. Kenneth Laskey
MITRE Corporation, M/S F510          phone: 703-983-7934
7515 Colshire Drive                           fax: 703-983-1379
McLean VA 22102-7508
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