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Subject: RE: [tab-askthetab] First Cut on Profiles

> So my question to Patrick / Robin is what kind of profile they had in mind ?

Jacques, many thanks for your input.  Based upon a survey of several SSOs
(some material already copied to this list, or to the OASIS EM CAP Profile
Subcommittee), I can understand why you'd say the term "profile" is
already quite an overloaded.  It does seem to be used variably in different
application domains (e.g., somewhat differently in digital library
space, healthcare, "IT", etc.)  The distinctions you have drawn are very

Truthfully, I don't have ANY profile type "in mind."  None whatsoever.  I
think it might be useful to provide OASIS TCs with some background and
reference material -- and possibly, best practice material -- so that
when TCs and SCs use the term "profile" in connection with their work,
the thing called "profile" meets some commonly accepted expectations.
A secondary benefit might be that user communities outside OASIS (e.g.,
IETF Working Groups) "profile" OASIS specifications, they could
consult this OASIS description and reference material to learn more
about "profiling" considerations we believe are important.

I think it would be a mistake to prescribe (mandate) any particular
definitions of "profile" to constrain and control OASIS TCs -- because
indeed, different spec efforts have different goals, and (per above)
the application domains impose different sets of assumptions.

The suggested background and reference material provided to TCs could help
ensure that technical work considered "profile" work takes cognizance
of key concepts, concerns, and common definitions so that the
profile specs communicate clearly to users, for the broad purpose
of interoperability across SSOs and end user communities.

Now: that's just my personal (limited) set of interests and concerns;
others on the TAB may have different goals, and that's fine.

I'll probably create a brief "Topic Document" in the Cover Pages
with a collection of references for example profiles, and for
published definitions used in various SSOs.  I don't intend to make
any personal analysis beyond that.

Jacques, your EU (ETSI Workshop) presentation [1] is one kind of
overview document I'd happily included in my set of references for
the benefit of readers who want to assess -- for themselves --
what the key considerations are for profiles, and the breadth of
usage of the "overloaded" term across various SSOs.

Many thanks!  I look forward to continued discussion from TAB members.

  - Robin

[1] http://www.etsi.org/plugtests/B2B/Prst/10_JDurand.pdf
     Paper presented at ETSI Workshop

    ETSI B2B Workshop (Plugtest Event)
    July 7-11, 2008
    Sophia Antipolis, France
    Session 2: Integration of eBusiness solutions -- Standardization issues
    Monday 7 July 2008
    Alain DECHAMPS, CEN (Chair)


Robin Cover
OASIS, Director of Information Services
Editor, Cover Pages and XML Daily Newslink
Email: robin@oasis-open.org
Staff bio: http://www.oasis-open.org/who/staff.php#cover
Cover Pages: http://xml.coverpages.org/
Newsletter: http://xml.coverpages.org/newsletterArchive.html
Tel: +1 972-296-1783

On Tue, 13 Jan 2009, Durand, Jacques R. wrote:

> The problem with "profile" is that it is already quite an overloaded
> term... and it means something different to different people.
> That's why a short - but precise enough - categorization upfront, is
> useful. No overthinking intended :-)
> Then we can dive in the one interpretation we want to deal with.
> I think that is what Martin is trying to do below , but I have some
> questions:
> in (1) : not necessarily *modifying* conf requirements I guess: could
> just add to them, e.g. defines a mapping between  different notions
> coming from different specs. Or some binding. Add some "glue".
> in (2): I guess what is meant by "conformance point", is what is
> commonly defined as [conformance] profile (e.g. by W3C )
> http://www.w3.org/TR/qaframe-spec/ <http://www.w3.org/TR/qaframe-spec/>
> " Profiles are subsets of a technology tailored to meet specific
> functional requirements of application communities.  The specification
> may define individual profiles, and may also define rules for creating
> new profiles. An individual profile defines the requirements for classes
> of products that conform to that profile.  Rules for profiles define
> validity criteria for profiles themselves"
> WS-I profiles fall under (1) apparently, and so do user-defined profiles
> that are business domain-specific such as DOJ  "Service Interaction
> Profiles"
> (http://it.ojp.gov/default.aspx?area=nationalInitiatives&page=1015) .
> But because they serve different purposes, and face different issues, I
> think these 2 kinds could be distinguished.
> [COnformance] profiles such as defined by conformance clauses, fall
> under (2) I think.
> So my question to Patrick / Robin is what kind of profile they had in
> mind ?
> Jacques
> ________________________________
> From: Martin Chapman [mailto:martin.chapman@oracle.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 10:13 AM
> To: Durand, Jacques R.; 'Patrick Durusau';
> tab-askthetab@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: RE: [tab-askthetab] First Cut on Profiles
> We might have be careful not to over think this issue. IMHO within an
> OASIS context a profile is one of two things:
> 1.      A separate specification in its own right that modifies
> conformance requirements of one or more other specifications.
> 2.      A distinct conformance point within a specification that
> modifies another conformance point in the same specification.
> From: Durand, Jacques R. [mailto:JDurand@us.fujitsu.com]
> Sent: 13 January 2009 00:50
> To: Patrick Durusau; tab-askthetab@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: RE: [tab-askthetab] First Cut on Profiles
> Inline <JD>,
> -jacques
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Patrick Durusau [mailto:patrick@durusau.net
> <mailto:patrick@durusau.net> ]
> Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 6:42 AM
> To: tab-askthetab@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: [tab-askthetab] First Cut on Profiles
> Greetings!
> Thinking about an appropriate response from the TAB to the question
> raised by Rex Brooks.
> As a first cut I would suggest:
> 1. Acknowledge that OASIS has no formal guidance on the "profile" issue
> <JD> we first need to define which kind of profile we talk about:
> (a) integration profiles (a-la-WSI)
> (b) usage profile (or deployment profile), which is about a community of
> user deciding of how to layer their own business practice on top of
> OASIS standards. May contain [application] domain-specific info.
> (c) COnformance profiles, whcih are more about defining a (set of)
> conformance clause(s) that define precisely what are the requirements -
> and the options - for a product that claims to conform to a spec.
> 2. Summarize the resources posted thus far, including those from Robin
> (thanks Robin!).
> <JD> I made last year a presentation about the general "profiling"
> activity, in EU. Will retrieve these slides.
> Perhaps in the form of an annotated set of resources with the major
> issues bulleted as a lead in?
> Question: Given the complexity of the profile issue, do we need anything
> more than some bright line stuff for the common cases (don't reuse names
> in a namespace unless you are following the original definition)?
> Having just skimmed most of the material that has been posted, I can
> readily imagine having different opinions on successive days about
> profiling in particular situations. I am not at all certain that beyond
> repeating the considerations that have been outlined by others that
> there is a lot of new ground to be covered. Perhaps after some
> experience has been gained using those general profiling considerations
> I may feel differently but at the moment I am not sure what more we
> could offer.
> I am not sure how such matters get on the agenda for discussion/decision
> by the TAB but I would be more than happy to draft some text that
> summarizes what I think could be some bring line rules and pointers to
> other considerations that could form the basis for an answer from the
> TAB.
> <JD> we could add a "profiling" section to out TAB wiki, as a
> collaborative space on this topic.
> I am assuming that answers are expected in some relatively responsive
> time frame.
> Hope everyone is having a great weekend!
> Patrick
> --
> Patrick Durusau
> patrick@durusau.net
> Chair, V1 - US TAG to JTC 1/SC 34
> Convener, JTC 1/SC 34/WG 3 (Topic Maps)
> Editor, OpenDocument Format TC (OASIS), Project Editor ISO/IEC 26300
> Co-Editor, ISO/IEC 13250-1, 13250-5 (Topic Maps)
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