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Subject: FW: [ciq] RE: [tax] CIQ: has any tax admin used it?
From: Hido Hasimbegovic [mailto:hido.hasimbegovic@customware.net]
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 10:32 AM
To: Ram Kumar; 'Beasley, Christine'; 'Andy Greener';
tax@lists.oasis-open.org
Cc: ciq@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [ciq] RE: [tax] CIQ: has any tax admin used it?
Hi all
I've followed this discussion with great interest and I think that my
experience with implementing CIQ standards may be applicable.
I have successfully implemented xAL, xNL, xNAL, xCIL and xCRL in a number of
different project. The most important implementation was probably a large
insurance industry enterprise integration project. xNAL was used as the
canonical name/address data format for customer data interchange across the
enterprise.
Due to the complexities of CIQ standards it was decided to come up with a
few different formats that can be used, depending on the requirements, of
different complexity levels. For example, for the purpose of displaying
basic customer information on the GUI, the basic name/address format was
used. On the other end of the spectrum, address data cleansed and validated
by data quality tools was stored using the highest possible level of detail.
Although at the beginning there was some resistance towards adoption of the
standard - lots of work was required to implement mappings and translations
which wasn't immediately required by the application, later stages of the
project benefited greatly from having customer data defined in a
"non-application" specific format.
As we were using an externally defined (although somewhat customised)
standard, people were happy to use good documentation provided by CIQ to
familiarise with the standard and existing code-base to implement it.
I think in proposal of any changes in standards it is paramount not to
consider implementation issues. CIQ has been around for a while now, and
Ram's proposal to re-factor it to three levels of complexity goes a long way
towards making implementation and adoption easier.
Best regards,
--
Hido Hasimbegovic
eBusiness Consultant | CustomWare Asia Pacific | www.customware.net
T: +61-3-9667-0124 | F: +61-3-9663-2616 | M: +61-416-174-453
Level 2, 222 Latrobe Street
Melbourne VIC
3000 Australia
Improve the quality of your services with WmUnit
Unit testing framework for WebMethods http://www.customware.net/WmUnit
-----Original Message-----
From: Ram Kumar [mailto:RKumar@msi.com.au]
Sent: Thursday, 22 July 2004 10:04 AM
To: Beasley, Christine; Andy Greener; tax@lists.oasis-open.org
Cc: ciq@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: [ciq] RE: [tax] CIQ: has any tax admin used it?
Hi Christine,
No worries.
My answer is generic and not specific to any
organisation and in particular, ATO. I just wanted
to re-iterate the objectives of CIQ TC.
BTW, I also sit in the AS4590 committee.
Regards,
Ram
-----Original Message-----
From: Beasley, Christine [mailto:Christine.Beasley@ato.gov.au]
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 9:50 AM
To: Ram Kumar; Andy Greener; tax@lists.oasis-open.org
Cc: ciq@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [tax] CIQ: has any tax admin used it?
My comments may have caused some confusion here. The ATO has not
implemented the Australian Standard from an application specific point
of view - the standard was chosen some time ago and supports our client
register and Australian Business Register - and continues to support all
of our current business needs. As it is also largely supported by our
business partners, this also allows for considerable interoperability
nationally. However, as I have indicated in response to the initial
question, we have highlighted a need to investigate CIQ as we move to
more global electronic communications.
Christine Beasley
Business Solutions
Australian Taxation Office
+61 2 9374 8466 (w)
+61 401 717 807 (m)
-----Original Message-----
From: Ram Kumar [mailto:RKumar@msi.com.au]
Sent: Thursday, 22 July 2004 09:29
To: Beasley, Christine; Andy Greener; tax@lists.oasis-open.org
Cc: ciq@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [tax] CIQ: has any tax admin used it?
Importance: High
Hi all,
Please note that the objective of name and address specs. of CIQ is to
be "application independent" and "truly global".
To meet this objective, the spec. should cater for different
application requirements ranging from simple representation of
name and address to complex representation (eg. data cleansing - parse
and match,
where you have to break the name and address structures into atomic
components). In addition to all of the above, the spec. should handle
name and addresses of 240+ countries.
It is unfortunate that organisations that implement name and address
specs. look at it from a specific application point of view. Any
organisation uses name and address data for various purposes (eg. data
cleansing, billing, marketing, etc) and the requirements vary. The best
answer to achieve interoperability of name and addres data within an
organisation is to have a single name and address standard that can meet
the different requirements. But this is not what is done normally.
Different specs. are implemented within an organisation addressing
different requirements,
and as a result interoperability becomes complex and almost impossible.
The complexity then grows as soon as the organisation attempts to
interoperate the name and address data outside its boundary. In this
millenium where terrorism is high on the agenda,
organisations/governments are seriously looking at exchanging
customer/party data with other organisations/governments and therefore,
interoperability of such data is becoming extremely important.
Currently, the CIQ is looking at name and address specs. to make it more
flexibile. The committee is looking at an option of having three
different specs. for name and address (eg. basic, advanced and
enterprise) that are forward compatible (basic->advanced->enterprise).
Basic: core/standard name and address components that are common to
any application.
Advanced: more structured name and address components
(eg. former names. known as - broken into ind. components)
Enterprise: detailed and structured name and address components
(eg. joint names, sub-divisions for companies, etc)
By this way, organisations requiring name and address for specific
implementation can choose one of the above depending upon the
requirement. CIQ will continue to maintain its of objective "application
independence" and "global".
Any new requirements for name and address is welcome and the CIQ TC will
give serious consideration.
Regards,
Ram Kumar
CIQ TC
-----Original Message-----
From: Beasley, Christine [mailto:Christine.Beasley@ato.gov.au]
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 7:46 AM
To: Andy Greener; tax@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [tax] CIQ: has any tax admin used it?
The ATO has elected to use an Australian Standard for name and address
information (AS4590) - primarily for the reasons Andy has mentioned -
CIQ is significantly more complex than we required at the time. However,
we have also identified a requirement to investigate CIQ from the
perspective of being able to exchange data internationally
Christine Beasley
Business Solutions
Australian Taxation Office
+61 2 9374 8466 (w)
+61 401 717 807 (m)
-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Greener [mailto:andy@gid.co.uk]
Sent: Thursday, 22 July 2004 01:16
To: tax@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: Re: [tax] CIQ: has any tax admin used it?
At 1:47 am -0400 21/7/04, Andrew Webber wrote:
>Has anyone in the group used CIQ as the basis for the solution to an
>identification requirement? The Position Paper v1.0 says this:
>
>>- Monitor the progress of CIQ.
>>- Assess if CIQ has matured enough for the efficient
>> and effective development of tax documents.
>>- Work on proof of concept to determine usefulness
>> of CIQ within the tax context.
>
>which implies that the appropriateness of CIQ is still to be
>determined.
>
>If no one has used it, has anyone documented their reasons for ruling
>it out?
We (UK IR) are conducting a thorough review of identification data
(including name and address) across all our services currently. CIQ will
be examined during that review, along with UK-specific standards such as
BS7666 for UK addresses.
I don't want to pre-empt the review, but I would say that the highly
structured form of names and addresses in CIQ may be overkill for many
uses - without some sort of gazetteer support at the point of input and
sophisticated address matching functionality internally it is probably
asking a bit much of most users to enter highly structured address data
and expect them to get it anything like correct or consistent. However,
there are some uses which benefit from such structure - so there is a
trade-off between usefulness and practicality.
--
Andy Greener Mob: +44 7836 331933
GID Ltd, Reading, UK Tel: +44 118 956 1248
andy@gid.co.uk Fax: +44 118 958 9005
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