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Subject: RE: [tgf] Issue - Conceptual - Identity Management, legal barriers, lines 978ff - closed


Thanks Peter.  Perhaps that’s one of the things we should look at on/after the next call – which other TCs/MSs do we need to reach out to and set up liaisons.  And I think it’s more than just seeking opinions, we need to think positively about linking into and referencing their work in our documents going forward.

John

 

From: Peter F Brown [mailto:peter@peterfbrown.com]
Sent: 11 March 2011 07:42
To: 'John Borras'; 'TGF TC List'
Subject: RE: [tgf] Issue - Conceptual - Identity Management, legal barriers, lines 978ff - closed

 

John:

On today’s PMRM TC call, I accepted to act as liaison with TGF and that was my line of thinking too – once we adopt the Primer formally as a TC draft we can ask PMRM (and maybe others) for opinion and input

 

Peter

 

From: John Borras [mailto:johnaborras@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: Thursday, 10 March, 2011 00:50
To: 'TGF TC List'
Subject: RE: [tgf] Issue - Conceptual - Identity Management, legal barriers, lines 978ff - closed

 

I think this illustrates what most of us have said on this topic recently, ie that we are not the best place to get into detail on this subject and there are other more well informed places for that,  eg the PRMM TC, which we should cross-refer to.   If everyone is content with Peter’s proposal and paper I would be happy as chair to send it to the PRMM chair with a request that they consider it as part of their work and state we will cross-refer to them in our work?

 

John

 

From: Peter F Brown [mailto:peter@peterfbrown.com]
Sent: 10 March 2011 00:22
To: 'TGF TC List'
Subject: RE: [tgf] Issue - Conceptual - Identity Management, legal barriers, lines 978ff - closed

 

Andy:

I wonder what sort of thought-leadership we could offer here. There seem to be several pieces to the puzzle:

There is no consensus globally about the need for government-led policy frameworks regarding identity management and/or privacy management. We need to be careful therefore about prescribing anything as part of the TGF that is likely to suggest that (and I know that’s not what you’re suggesting)

There is no global consensus about who is in charge of ‘personal identity’: under roman law, for example, the state manages identity not the individual (names are registered at birth – sometimes with legal restrictions – and an individual’s personal identity record (Etat Civil) is managed by a public authority not the individual), whereas in UK and US it is a matter or private choice, circumscribed by civil and criminal law (use of identity with intent to deceive or defraud)

Several years back, when working for the Austrian government and contributing to the EU policy debate on eIdentity, the issue of citizen-centric approaches came up and I prepared a short white paper on this (see attached). The approach attempted to resolve the dilemma about who manages/controls what; what *is* personal identity and data; and how could a citizen-centric model work, particularly with different national customs/frameworks.

I don’t know whether we want to go any further in the TGF than we propose to but I’d be happy to hear any comments/feedback about the paper. Incidentally, this may be submitted as a contribution to the PMRM TC which, for me at least, seems to be the natural home for it.

 

Peter

 

 

From: Andy Hopkirk [mailto:andy.hopkirk@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, 07 March, 2011 10:06
To: peter@peterfbrown.com
Cc: Greenaway Nigel; TGF TC List
Subject: Re: [tgf] Issue - Conceptual - Identity Management, legal barriers, lines 978ff - closed

 

A thought on the identity management discussion below.... 

 

At least in the UK, the notion of citizen-centric identity management is being put about (again), as part of the (i) re-localisation political agenda and (ii) by the 'open society' gang as part of their citizen responsibility/ my control of my data agenda. [The concept runs thus... I control my identity record in a public or private 'record store' and give permisssions to others - inc. government - to use that up to date identity for purposes only I can approve of (or not, as the case may be)].

 

Begs the question in my mind to maybe not be too definitive about identity management as being something that will always be only within government's remit to control and only in harmony with the long established legal precedents... because change happens, sometimes quickly...

 

Andy

On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 9:27 PM, Peter F Brown <peter@peterfbrown.com> wrote:

Nig:

OK, what I have now is:

“Although the advent of e Government held out the promise of significant simplification of identity management - bringing service improvement gains for the citizen and efficiency savings for the Government - significant barriers remain. These include legal barriers that have grown up over centuries of piecemeal approaches taken by public administrations and put in place often to protect individuals from the effects of equally piecemeal processes. As such the impact of any changes must be considered very carefully.”

 

Does this capture it?

Peter

 

From: Greenaway Nigel [mailto:Nig.Greenaway@uk.fujitsu.com]
Sent: Monday, 28 February, 2011 07:30
To: TGF TC List
Subject: [tgf] New Issue - Conceptual - Identity Management

 

Line 980. I think it is worth elaboration on the ‘significant barriers’ a little. I suggest adding a further couple of sentences:-

“There may be legal barriers that have been created over time by the piecemeal approaches taken over centuries of silo-based activity. Many of these will have been put in place to protect individuals and the impact of and any changes to them must be considered very carefully

Regards

Nig

Nig Greenaway

Government Division

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