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Subject: RE: [tgf] TGF PL document public review contribution

And just to chip in further....


The term citizen was originally used here to pick up the point that we all have a much richer relationship with government services rather than simply as users of them.  Indeed, there are plenty of government services which many of us never use but still have an important stake in and relationship with (as tax payers, member of society etc).  The Primer explicitly addresses this point:  


·         In lines 62-73: A full understanding of this definition of Transformational Government can also be assisted by focusing on the four major ways in which Transformational Government programs differ from traditional e Government programs: [First three points, and then fourthly…]  They focus on the "citizen" not the "customer". That is, they seek to engage with citizens as owners of and participants in the creation of public services, not as passive recipients of services.


·         And also in lines 96-102: Citizens' experience of new technologies is shaped by the best that the private sector has to offer globally and - increasingly - through the ability to co-create content and services as individuals or in peer-to-peer networks. They will demand ever greater interactivity and ownership in their relationship with public services. Transformational Government programs embrace this. Where traditional e‑Government programs focused on the user as "the customer", Transformational Government enhances the relationship between government and the citizen on a richer, more reciprocated, and more empowering basis.


So although the TGF does use the terms customer and user where the narrower meanings of those words seems appropriate, I’d agree with John and Peter that it would be a shame to lose the citizen term in this wider sense.  And clearly if we did make the changes which Andy has suggested in the Pattern Language on this issue, then we’d need to lose the bits of “philosophy” which I’ve quoted above from the Primer.





Chris Parker

Managing Partner, CS Transform Ltd, +44 7951 754 060

-----Original Message-----
From: tgf@lists.oasis-open.org [mailto:tgf@lists.oasis-open.org] On Behalf Of Peter F Brown
Sent: 01 November 2011 14:28
To: John Borras; 'Andy Hopkirk'; 'TGF TC List'
Subject: RE: [tgf] TGF PL document public review contribution



I wanted to chip in on John's response (3) below to Andy's comment on 'citizen' or 'customer'


There are many places in the document where Andy's proposed substitution is OK and actually make more sense in the text - although I would be in favour of using 'service consumer' (or simply 'consumer') instead of 'customer', in order to align ourselves with generally accepted SOA terminology.


On a deeper level, however, I would tend to align myself more with John's PoV as I think that there is an important issue here that a pure SOA approach has never really had to address: the situation in which the 'customer' doesn't have a choice of 'service provider' because the service is a uniquely public one. Although the SOA paradigm holds up, the concept of 'service consumer' does imply (and is intended to imply) a freedom to choose between service providers and we've never really addressed the unique duality in a public service context of 'universal service provider' vs 'captive consumer'. Neither am I comfortable with the idea of implying that businesses have the same status as citizens in their relationship with government - even if the 'captive consumer' idea also exists for certain business transactions with government agencies (business registration, employee social insurance, corporate tax filing, etc). Whatever the US Supreme Court may have controversially ruled (admittedly only in the scope of party political funding), we should be careful of endorsing 'companies are people too'.


Not sure how to resolve this: customer, client, consumer, citizen, public service user? We should indeed discuss this...





Peter F Brown

Independent Consultant


P.O. Box 49719, Los Angeles, CA 90049, USA

Tel: +1.310.694.2278



-----Original Message-----

From: tgf@lists.oasis-open.org [mailto:tgf@lists.oasis-open.org] On Behalf Of John Borras

Sent: Monday, 24 October, 2011 01:13

To: 'Andy Hopkirk'; 'TGF TC List'

Subject: RE: [tgf] TGF PL document public review contribution




Thanks for this comprehensive review!  It looks a daunting set of changes but I suggest if we break it down it's not that bad.


1.  There is a lot of basic word-smithing type stuff which I'm happy to accept and we can treat as non-substantive.

2.  There are some suggestions of naming inconsistencies and sequencing particularly between Fig 1 and the text of the document, eg Franchise Model, Transformational Roadmap.  You're probably right on these but I'd defer to Chris on them as it's mostly his source material.

3.  You suggest a basic change from Citizen to Customer throughout. I'm not happy with this.  When I was in Gov't I could never accept that governments had customers, it just never felt the right word although it's probably very PC. Customers normally have a choice of suppliers, but taxpayers don't. So I would want to stay with the generic use of Citizen as we have it.

4.  Your suggestion of consistent formatting of the Patterns seems fair comment but I'd ask for Peter's views on your proposals.

5.  You suggest we shouldn't express opinions unless we can back them up with referenced material.  I don't altogether agree with this. We as a TC of experienced eGov professionals have the right to express opinions based on our experience and judgment so I wouldn't agree with your view on this.


So in an effort to clear your comments, perhaps Peter could deal with 1 and

4 above without further discussion unless anyone has any objections, and on our call next week we can focus on points 2, 3 and 5 plus anything else anyone wants to raise.





-----Original Message-----

From: tgf@lists.oasis-open.org [mailto:tgf@lists.oasis-open.org] On Behalf Of Andy Hopkirk

Sent: 23 October 2011 20:52

To: TGF TC List

Subject: [tgf] TGF PL document public review contribution



My contribution to the TGF Pattern Language document public review is attached.

Is in Word .docx and should be viewed showing comments and Tracked Changes.





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