RE: [tosca-comment] Workflows in TOSCA

["Lipton, Paul C" <Paul.Lipton@ca.com>]

Dear Oliver,

I acknowledge your comment during our public review period. It will be considered as part of the public comment review and the TC's response will be published. 

Regards,
Paul 

-----Original Message-----
From: tosca-comment@lists.oasis-open.org [mailto:tosca-comment@lists.oasis-open.org] On Behalf Of Oliver Kopp
Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2017 3:29 AM
To: tosca-comment@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: [tosca-comment] Workflows in TOSCA

Dear OASIS TC,

I read the PRD 02 of Version 1.1 and read about the simple workflow language.

I have a background of several years in the area of workflow management. I was at the IAAS, which build a workflow-engine for BPEL (research prototype) and I know one main contributor of Apache ODE pretty well and also the founders of Camunda, which build a very good BPMN engine.

We also use BPEL and BPMN in context of TOSCA 1.0 and it works.

Seeing the workflow language in the specification, I think, the language is well-suited for short running tasks. But what about long-running processes? Such as monitoring the application. What about human tasks? What if I need an Oracle license? How can I do that with the proposed language? What about complex fault handling? What about reversing actions (compensation!)? This is all possible with BPEL and BPMN engines.

We also showed than one can combine declarative and imperative provisioning using BPEL:
Breitenbücher, Uwe et al.: Combining Declarative and Imperative Cloud Application Provisioning based on TOSCA. In: Proceedings of the IEEE International Conference on Cloud Engineering (IC2E), 2014.
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.iaas.uni-2Dstuttgart.de_RUS-2Ddata_INPROC-2D2014-2D21-2520-2D-2520Combining-2520Declarative-2520and-2520Imperative-2520Cloud-2520Application-2520Provisioning-2520based-2520on-2520TOSCA.pdf&d=DwIFaQ&c=_hRq4mqlUmqpqlyQ5hkoDXIVh6I6pxfkkNxQuL0p-Z0&r=3UUaotXGpqHidtIBP1k_gYHXTeBFOTS36FpSS_-nzAk&m=nD7ACc-aDih8t7_9gLPH9KtFyqfdsxqN9OkiTy01cto&s=5MV73ln3EoUIoD70UytlVRU12tFCiU1h0Xz46ZcIQUk&e= 

We also have REST extensions for BPEL and also a simplified syntax for BPEL (https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__bpelscript.org_&d=DwIFaQ&c=_hRq4mqlUmqpqlyQ5hkoDXIVh6I6pxfkkNxQuL0p-Z0&r=3UUaotXGpqHidtIBP1k_gYHXTeBFOTS36FpSS_-nzAk&m=nD7ACc-aDih8t7_9gLPH9KtFyqfdsxqN9OkiTy01cto&s=8dgD3vBBm1RrrYKGJxsHchWfTS6cfqbtoSRVpepYxXc&e= ).


TOSCA aims for portability. It has been shown that BPEL and BPMN are portable. Not all construcuts, but the most important ones. An overview is given here: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__peace-2Dproject.github.io_&d=DwIFaQ&c=_hRq4mqlUmqpqlyQ5hkoDXIVh6I6pxfkkNxQuL0p-Z0&r=3UUaotXGpqHidtIBP1k_gYHXTeBFOTS36FpSS_-nzAk&m=nD7ACc-aDih8t7_9gLPH9KtFyqfdsxqN9OkiTy01cto&s=Ubss3oXKt-HLuwMtoFyiWvDeZNA4jnUnZBwbq6sXf8Q&e= 


In TOSCA 1.0, this was acknowledged. One could add arbitrary management plans. Winery (https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__eclipse.org_winery_&d=DwIFaQ&c=_hRq4mqlUmqpqlyQ5hkoDXIVh6I6pxfkkNxQuL0p-Z0&r=3UUaotXGpqHidtIBP1k_gYHXTeBFOTS36FpSS_-nzAk&m=nD7ACc-aDih8t7_9gLPH9KtFyqfdsxqN9OkiTy01cto&s=R3k0DuJEZbK3-WRgHVD4vJmDulZugcMlyUdn-TyaXz0&e= ) also supports that. We also offer an open-source BPMN Modeler with direct support of TOSCA. Source: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_winery_BPMN4TOSCAModeler&d=DwIFaQ&c=_hRq4mqlUmqpqlyQ5hkoDXIVh6I6pxfkkNxQuL0p-Z0&r=3UUaotXGpqHidtIBP1k_gYHXTeBFOTS36FpSS_-nzAk&m=nD7ACc-aDih8t7_9gLPH9KtFyqfdsxqN9OkiTy01cto&s=Lm_XLecrXqAfAmDEgcz15MCT0O48mwARtiMwEoNDJCk&e= . The result is converted to BPEL processes, which have been successfully deployed on the WSO2 BPS, but can also deployed on other BPEL engines.


All in all, I would like to ask the TC if it was possible to bring back the support of established workflow languages and not restrict the implementors to one language.

Greetings from Stuttgart,

Oliver

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