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Subject: Re: [trans-ws] ISO codes and RAND


Firstly please find attached the UBL proposal regarding schemas for 
sharing the validation common codes like ISO 3166.

I wholly agree with the submission of INCITS to ISO/ANSI. Quite honestly 
I consider this type of move extremely worrying and will lead, if 
carried out, to the demise of the use of ISO/ANSI codes and the creation 
of an independent and free coding system under the auspices of say OASIS 
or ECMA.

Reading the newsletter quote it is unclear whether reproduction by a 
standards organization such as OASIS/Lisa would incur any potential 
liability as it is not for direct commercial gain. The codes would not 
be part of a product, but merely reproduced to insure conformance. The 
approach to these matters by OASIS is in any case "RAND", so adopting 
the codes would be within the guidelines given by OASIS.



Arle Lommel wrote:

> This is the information I have on this topic. I don't know a whole lot more.
> -Arle
>     -----Original Message-----
>     From: Jennifer DeCamp  [mailto:jdecamp@mitre.org]
>     Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 5:46  PM
>     To: Michael Anobile
>     Subject: Letter from  INCITS
> in031008
> August 1,  2003
> FROM:    INCITS Executive  Board
> SUBJECT:    Availability of ISO  Codes
> INCITS wishes to express its concern over recent positions taken  by 
> ANSI and by the ISO CPSG with respect to ISO 3166, ISO 4217 and ISO 639, 
> in  particular ISO 3166, Country Codes.  In brief, the issue is whether 
> ANSI  or other ISO national bodies, or ISO itself, should charge royalty 
> fees for  the use of the standard, in addition to a standard copyright 
> fee for purchase  or reproduction of the standard.  In ANSI's on-line 
> newsletter for May  2003, ANSI reported that:  
>     "The CPSG also discussed the ISO 3166 country codes, ISO 4217
>      currencycodes, and ISO 639 language codes and proposed
>     clarifications for  their distribution.  Noting the necessity for a
>     number of ISO standards  to be published as databases, the CPSG
>     asked that the Secretary General  recommend a consideration of the
>     publciation of some ISO standards as such,  and promoted studying
>     related pricing, delivery, and maintenance  issues.
>     "CPSG Recommendation:  CPSG considered the ambiguity  between
>     reproducing of data elements from ISO 3166, 4217 and 6349 for the
>      purpose of implementation and for commercial exploitation and
>     proposed the  following clarifications:
>         * The reproduction of the full standard shall follow the normal
>            copyright rules  
>         * No copyright fee shall be charged for the reproduction of the
>           2 digit  codes of ISO 3166, 4217 and 639 lists in books,
>           magazines, acadeic work  and for internal use by companies,
>           institutes and organization  
>         * Software developers or commercial resellers requesting
>           permission to  embed ISO codes in their products for resale
>           will be asked to purchase  each code in electronic format and
>           pay either an annual fee or a one time  fee and any applicable
>           maintenance fees required (to be further discussed  with CPSG
>           by correspondence)"
> The final point has been  amplified by ANSI in a summary on use of the 
> ISO codes as:    
>     "Companies who develop software products for sale to other  parties
>     are adding value to their products by including the data elements
>      from an ISO Code in proper applications ...via the sale of the
>     product the  developing company is not only being compensated for
>     its direct efforts to  incorporate the ISO Codes in apropriate
>     locations but it is also being  compensated for trhe value the ISO
>     Codes have added to its product. The ISO  community should also be
>     compensated for providing the intellectual property  required to
>     incorporate the value-added features into the  product."
> While this raises many debatable issues, INCITS'  overriding concern is 
> that this represents a radical departure from  established practice with 
> respect to standards.  We are not concerned  here with the fees 
> collected by many standards setting organizations for  purchasing copies 
> of standards.  Rather,  the proposal being  discussed would in effect 
> place a charge upon implementing a standard  by enforcing a fee 
> associated with each copy of a product built according to  or 
> incorporating the standard.  In essence, therefore, this charges users 
>  of a standard, be they direct (in the case of manufacturers) or 
> indirect (in  the case of product consumers) to actually use the standard.
> In  INCITS'  opinion this would constitute a strong disincentive for 
>  manufacturers, large consumers and consumer groups to develop standards 
> within  standards organizations which might adopt this process or to 
> subsequently make  use of the standards in their products and services. 
>  Standards  participants, whether manufacturers, consumers, government 
> agencies or other  entities, bring their own information to the 
> standards development process so  that they can share in the resultant 
> standard.  In other words, standards  participants have the expectation 
> that in exchange for their "valuable and  volunteer" contributions, they 
> will be able to "use" the fruits of their  consensus-building process 
> without further hindrance.
> In the  Information Technology industry, where many consortia and 
> alternative  standards-setting models to the formal standards 
> development process already  flourish, INCITS believes that the 
> imposition of such usage fees would be  likely to drive participation in 
> standards development away from organizations  which implement them. At 
> the very least standards participants would probably  adjust their 
> priorities for involvement as a result.
> Accordingly,  INCITS requests the ANSI ICO Council to  
>    1. Adopt a position that fees for using the contents of standards, as
>        opposed to fees for the purchase of the standards themselves, is
>        inappropriate  
>    2. Ensure that ANSI does not go forward with such a policy  
>    3. Take this issue forward to ISO Council in the strongest possible
>       terms  to dissuade ISO and its members from this approach and from
>       ISO policy  
> ------ End of Forwarded Message


email - azydron@azdata-products.com
smail - Mr. A.Zydron
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         High Wycombe,
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Mobile +(44) 7966 477181
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