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Subject: Re: UN/CEFACT response to UBL

Hello UN/CEFACT UBL Discussion Team,

The team appointed by the UBL TC to negotiate the proposed
transition of UBL from OASIS to CEFACT met Thursday morning to
prepare for discussion of this matter at our upcoming UBL TC
meeting in Montreal.  As chance would have it, the timing of this
meeting allowed us to very briefly consider and discuss the mail
received from Margaret Pemberton via Klaus-Dieter Naujok a few
hours before the call.  Thus I have been authorized to transmit
this response in time (we hope) for your consideration this week.

Discussion centered around this passage from Margaret's message,
which is copied in full below:

   UN/CEFACT is looking forward to finalize this effort and would
   like to meet the timing as specified in paragraph #1 of the
   proposal below.  Therefore, could OASIS/UBL confirm that they
   are also able to meet the target date (15 September 2003)

We regret to state that several factors will prevent us from
meeting the targets we were forecasting 26 November 2002 when we
first made this proposal.  Chief among these factors are the

 - At the April/May TC meeting in London, we inserted an
   additional review cycle (0.8) this summer for the purpose of
   gaining focused input from RosettaNet, OAG, and eGov
   procurement experts.  This cycle has added approximately three
   months to our original estimates.  Our revised timeline now
   schedules release of UBL 1.0 from the TC into the OASIS
   standardization process in mid-October 2003.

 - It is increasingly likely that we will find it useful to
   schedule another additional review period (call it 0.9) to test
   certain design assumptions in real-world implementations before
   finalizing 1.0.  This has not yet been brought before the UBL
   TC for discussion (we will be talking about this at our meeting
   in Montreal beginning 28 July), but it is a real possibility.
   Given the fixed timing of the OASIS standardization process, it
   appears that the UN/CEFACT Forum meeting in March 2004 is a
   more realistic target for the transition of UBL to CEFACT.

 - Work scheduling aside, the delay of the CEFACT team in
   responding to our proposal of April 2003 makes it impossible
   for us and the UBL TC to consider the changes in wording you
   have just proposed in time for any immediate action.

 - The change just suggested for paragraph 5 of our April proposal
   is especially problematic.  Our proposed language was:

      5. UBL shall be formally recognized as UN/CEFACT's preferred
	 document-centric XML syntax for business-to-business
	 electronic commerce.

   Your proposed revision would read:

      5. UBL shall be formally recognized as a UN/CEFACT preferred
	 document-centric XML syntax for business-to-business
	 electronic commerce.

   This change clearly anticipates the existence of multiple
   "UN/CEFACT preferred document-centric XML syntaxes."  This
   seems to misunderstand the whole point of the UBL effort, which
   is to define a single international standard document-centric
   XML B2B syntax.  As we have stated before, we accept the very
   useful distinction between document-centric and process-centric
   XML B2B syntaxes.  But we fail to see any advantage in the
   definition of more than one such syntax as the basis for XML
   business documents.  Furthermore, it seems to us that the
   existence of multiple document-based syntaxes will make the
   future task of integrating the document-centric and
   process-centric approaches virtually impossible.

   At the very least, we need time to consider the ramifications
   of the changes you have just proposed and to prepare
   counter-proposals of our own.

 - Finally, reports of statements made by key ATG members at the
   recent meeting in Walldorf regarding the placement and function
   of UBL in ATG need to be discussed and understood by the
   negotiation team and the UBL TC before we can continue progress
   in the direction of a transition of the work to ATG.  We have
   scheduled talks in Montreal for this purpose.

Taking all of these factors into consideration, we believe that a
reasonable timeline (assuming that we can resolve the remaining
issues, and taking into account the OASIS standardization process)
would have everything in place for a transition of the UBL
committees into ATG by the March UN/CEFACT Forum meeting in
Barcelona following a co-located UBL/ATG meeting in Wollongong in

Best regards,

Jon Bosak


Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:48:09 +0200
Subject: Re: [ubl-cefact] UN/CEFACT response  to UBL
Cc: raywalker@attglobal.net, rberwanger@bTrade.com, diskray@w150.aone.net.au,
        mcrawford@lmi.org, karl.best@oasis-open.org, agregory@aeon-llc.com,
        stk@finansraadet.dk, gunther.stuhec@sap.com, lseaburg@aeon-llc.com,
        Sue.Probert@commerceone.com, jbc@lawyer.com
To: jon.bosak@sun.com
From: Klaus-Dieter Naujok <klaus@naujok.name>


The message below was sent almost an hour ago to the list. However, 
none of us got a copy back. Therefore, I am sending this out to the 
list members suing their individual email addresses.



Begin forwarded message:


In preparation for the OASIS/UBL discussion today, we are forwarding 
you the updated proposal for confirmation, It is our understanding that 
this version more clearly articulates the agreements that were reached 
during the discussions between Jon Bosak, Mark Crawford and Ray Walker 
in London.   UN/CEFACT is happy and anxious to finalize this agreement 
so that we can jointly publicize the consolidation of our activities.  
It is critical that we move expeditiously, as the UN/CEFACT meeting in 
Seoul  is rapidly approaching.  UN/CEFACT is  looking forward to 
finalize this effort  and would like to meet the timing as specified in 
paragraph #1 of the proposal below.  Therefore, could OASIS/UBL confirm 
that they are also able to meet the  target date (15 September 2003)
Best Regards,

Margaret Pemberton
UNCEFACT/ ATG Chair; on behalf of the UN/CEFACT UBL Discussion Team

Revised Plan for Transfer of UBL to UN/CEFACT

13 March 2003; minor revision 17 May 2003

<new>Minor revision's 17 July to Paragraph 4 & 5:</new>

1. The development of UBL Naming and Design Rules and UBL Library
    Content shall continue in the current OASIS organizational
    structure until completion and OASIS standardization of Version
    1.0 of the following items of work: the UBL Naming and Design
    Rules, the UBL component library, and an initial set of UBL
    document schemas.  Completion of these work items is expected
    in 2Q2003 and OASIS standardization is expected in 3Q2003.  It
    shall be the plan of the the OASIS UBL TC to complete these
    items in time to become ATG items of work at the meeting of the
    UN/CEFACT Forum in September 2003.

2. The UBL TC shall recommend to OASIS the creation of one or more
    short-term mailing lists for the direct input of comments from
    members of UN/CEFACT into the work of the UBL 1.0
    specification.  Interested UN/CEFACT members shall be invited
    to participate informally in UBL TC and technical subcommittee
    meetings.  Input from UN/CEFACT members shall be given
    consideration to the fullest extent possible within the limits
    of UBL's current schedule, scope, and business requirements.

3. Upon completion of the initial set of deliverables and their
    publication as OASIS standards, OASIS shall grant UN/CEFACT an
    unlimited, perpetual, royalty-free license to continue
    development of the standards and to publish works derived from
    those standards as UN/CEFACT specifications.

4. Ownership of the UBL name and logo as applied to version 1.0
    shall remain with OASIS; ownership of the UBL name and logo as
    applied to later versions of the work shall vest in UN/CEFACT.
    OASIS shall continue to distribute UBL 1.0 without charge to
    users but shall discontinue further development of the
    standard.  UN/CEFACT shall publish future versions of UBL
    without charge to users.  If UN/CEFACT fails to <new> progress
    work on progress work on UBL activities</new> <delete> publish a
    version of UBL</delete> as a UN-sanctioned standard within one year 
    the date on which this agreement takes effect, or if UN/CEFACT
    at any future time transfers development of UBL to some third
    party or terminates its continuing development and maintenance
    of UBL as a freely available standard, then OASIS shall have
    the right to resume further development of UBL using the UBL
    name and logo.

5. UBL shall be formally recognized as <new>a </new> UN/CEFACT
    <delete>'s</delete> preferred
    document-centric XML syntax for business-to-business electronic

6. The OASIS UBL subcommittees shall transfer to UN/CEFACT as UBL
    subcommittees of ATG chartered to continue development of
    UN/CEFACT's document-centric XML syntax for
    business-to-business electronic commerce.

7. This plan shall become effective when approved by UN/CEFACT,
    OASIS, and the OASIS UBL Technical Committee.

Klaus-Dieter Naujok                         UN/CEFACT/TMG Chair
Global e-Business Advisory Council            Principal Advisor
Business Web Site                                www.ge-bac.com
Personal Web Site                         www.klaus.naujok.name
TMG Web Site          http://webster.disa.org/cefact-groups/tmg

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