RE: [ubl-comment] Code list rules document

[Philip Goatly <philip.goatly@bolero.net>]

Hi Eve,

  Thanks for your prompt reply. What you say is quite true there are a number
of ways of handling hierarchical code lists.

 The question is what should be recommended and can we have a Schema for the 
recommendation.

  Lets take a very simple example. Countries and their sub regions(States US, France Departements,
  UK Counties, Germany Laender  etc.in one list.
 At the country level we have established code lists.Quite clearly if a user selects US as the country
 he/she cannot select Languedoc as the region since that is peculiar to France. Also bear in mind that
 there may be no set of codes for the UK counties - just the names in full.

 Another question the above scenario raises is where does the 'data' end and where does the particular
implementation - in s/w terms begin.

Cheers, Phil.

-----Original Message-----
From: Eve L. Maler [mailto:eve.maler@sun.com]
Sent: 27 August 2002 19:00
To: Philip Goatly
Cc: ubl-ndrsc@lists.oasis-open.org; ubl-comment@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: Re: [ubl-comment] Code list rules document


This is a good question (and one that should be treated in the spec...). 
  This architecture doesn't prevent any hierarchical structuring of 
codes that the agency might desire to reflect in the actual code data. 
For example, this could be done with subelements in the inner code 
element (done as a complex rather than a simple code content type), or 
with punctuation as delimiters (done with pattern-matching on the simple 
code content type, so that, say, hyphens are enforced as the separators).

However, my understanding is that often code lists have elaborate 
classification hierarchies above the level of the actual code, *which 
you can access by reference to the code* and which need not be baked 
into the code string that appears in a message.  For example, if 024581 
(or 02-45-81 or <sub>02</sub><sub>45</sub><sub>81</sub> or whatever) 
means "canned food, baked beans, non-fat", the code as a whole can be 
treated as essentially opaque as far as the schema is concerned, while 
still having a sophisticated hierarchy as a code list ontology/taxonomy.

So in practice, an agency, in addition to preparing a reuse-ready code 
list module that could be pulled into vocabularies such as UBL, might 
very well have one or more data-dictionary representations of the code 
list that supply all of the definitions, parental relationships, etc.

Of course, there are various XML and non-XML formats already used for 
formally defining code lists in this way.  The UBL recommendations don't 
try to address this use case at all, but rather try to ensure the actual 
usage of codes in an instance.  As an example, I believe the UNECE code 
list schemas are never intended to have instances, so there are some 
reuse criteria that they don't satisfy.

Does this satisfy your concern?  If not, do you have suggestions on how 
the spec should change?

Thanks,

	Eve

Philip Goatly wrote:
> Sorry UB/SPSC should read UN/SPSC
> 
> Cheers, Phil
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Philip Goatly 
> Sent: 27 August 2002 09:13
> To: 'eve.maler@sun.com'; ubl-ndrsc@lists.oasis-open.org;
> ubl-comment@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: RE: [ubl-comment] Code list rules document
> 
> 
> Folks,
> 
>     Have I missed something? What about hierarchical code lists e.g UN/LOCODES 2 level Country-Location and 
> UN/SPSC codes which involves 4 levels.
> 
>     If I have n't missed something - I am very disappointed that the consideration of code lists should
> have been conducted at such a naive level.
> 
> Cheers, Phil
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eve Maler - Sun Microsystems [mailto:Eve.Maler@sun.com]
> Sent: 25 August 2002 22:13
> To: ubl-ndrsc@lists.oasis-open.org; ubl-comment@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: [ubl-comment] Code list rules document
> 
> 
> I have managed to finish a real draft of the code list rules document.
> This document extracts and expands on the code list rules that were in
> the most recent public snapshot of the NDR document (draft 12).  While
> there are a few outstanding issues, I think it's largely usable in its 
> current state.  I hope you all will give this a careful review, try it 
> out, and send your comments in.
> 
> In my current technical circumstances I'm unable to attach files to 
> email messages -- perhaps a blessing!  I have FTP'd the relevant files 
> to both the NDR archive and the "current" directory (Mavis, could you 
> please update the NDR portal?):
> 
>   http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/ubl/ndrsc/archive/wd-ublndrsc-codelist-01.doc
>   http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/ubl/ndrsc/archive/wd-ublndrsc-codelist-01.pdf
>   http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/ubl/ndrsc/archive/CodeListModuleTemplate.xsd
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 	Eve

-- 
Eve Maler                                        +1 781 442 3190
Sun Microsystems                            cell +1 781 883 5917
XML Web Services / Industry Initiatives      eve.maler @ sun.com


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