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Subject: [ubl-csc] Minutes for 26 August CSC Meeting
Minutes for 26 August 2002 UBL CSC meeting
The UBL CSC met by phone on Monday, 26 August 2002, at 8:00am California time -
(11:00am-12:00pm Eastern Daylight Time)
1. Roll call
* Jon Bosak Yes
*Tim McGrath Yes
*Sue Probert Yes
*Mark Crawford Yes
*Eve Mailer Joined at x:03. Left at y:02
*Arofan Gregory Joined at x:07.
2. Adoption of agenda/schedule planning
Adopted. Future schedule remains:
September 23
October 1-4: F2F #5 in Burlington, MA, USA
3. Significant issues from Committees
* Jon - Mat Gertner has resigned as chair of the Context Subcommittee due
to personal reasons.
* Tim - LCSC - Problems with distribution. Reported problems with XSD
distribution package. There are a couple of things we might want to
change, and a couple of things we have to change. Eve considers all
things reported as schema bugs that make testing difficult/impossible as
required. Tim thinks not a problem with changing, but that he does not
have a clear understanding of what needs be fixed. Specifically, someone
needs to walk him through specific repair points. Eve thinks we may just
want to tweak the existing files. Perhaps Norm can fix. Arofan made the
point that Gunther is doing work in behalf of the Tools Committee.
Agreement that Norm would be approached to make fixes. Norm
contacted during call and agreed to look at package and fix. Norm will be
asked to send fixed products to ad-hoc list for Tim's action to rebundle
and redistribute. Samples will be held off for a few days. Also need
diagrams added to supplemental (support) package.
4. - Coordination between Subcommittee's (Carry forward)
Issue - What's the best way to achieve coordination among subcommittees,
particularly LC and NDR? One idea floated so far is a "SWAT team" of
people who are in both, meeting every 2+ weeks. Another idea is to use
the CSC forum itself for issues.
Eve has submitted the following for consideration under this general
heading -
- Containership and the UBL Library distribution There are several
position papers out now that touch on this subject: Arofan's containership
paper, Gunther et al.'s paper on OO design, and Tim's paper (upcoming?)
on normalization. There has been a concern expressed in the NDR
meetings that the upcoming LC SC distribution has a stance on
containership that doesn't reflect the discussion on this point at the last
F2F (centering on Arofan's paper) and presents only one viewpoint.
Obviously this is a big, important topic that should be discussed at the next
F2F (see below), but the particular concern expressed was that the issue is
being presented to reviewers in a one-sided fashion. How can we ensure
that reviewers see the pros and cons of different containership choices and
have a chance to consider them?
Summary of discussion:
*Tim - the way I phrased this issue is really under the role of data modeling. There
does appear to be a raft of opinions about this whole area. It appears that this issue
was raised independently in each team, without cross pollenization.
*Arofan - concerned that what was published has not been agreed to.
*Tim - Multiple papers all covering parts of this.
*General discussion on what exactly is being talked about. Tim feels that the
"normalization" paper was not part of the distribution.
*Jon noted that distribution should be looked at from higher level perspective,
and that container issue should be called out to request comments by reviewers and
not to hold up release. Several members feel that this is a good approach. Jon
suggested that we add paragraph to release notice that draws attention.
Jon also wants to ensure that containership issue is resolved before next F2F. Arofan
concerned. Jon thinks that modeling can be deferred, but containership needs
resolved. Jon suggested following 8 alternatives -
a. Appoint team to look at issue
b. Devote all NDR and LCSC to discuss this topic in joint
c. Devote NDR or LCSC to discuss this topic
d. Start debate in UBL comment list
e. Start debate in UBL list (restricts discussion)
f. Chairs decide in separate subcommittees what their subcommittee solution
g. Jon can look at issue and provide recommendation
h. Chair issues finding
*General discussion on what is the exact issue. General agreement that we need to
ensure that we limit what is put in general debate. Concern expressed that
extension methodology is intertwined with containership issue. Tim would be
happy if Eve would take lead on refining issue down to single statement that was
proposed by NDR group for discussion on Comment list.
*Proposal - Eve toss proposed NDR rule out to UBL comment list and request
one week discussion. As a precursor, NDR will make this topic for this weeks
NDR call and will have formal vote. Eve will draft release and vet with Jon before
releasing to NDR Comment on Thursday. Jon will develop rules for debate. The
CSC reached agreement on this approach.
*Further discussion on where containership lives. General agreement that we
would hold this discussion in both NDR and LCSC.
*Proposal that that the week of 2 September, both the LCSC and NDR
calls will be devoted to this issue and will be joint calls. Chairs to work
out agenda's with respective teams and coordinate on CSC list. CSC
reached agreement on this approach.
*General agreement between LCSC and NDR Chairs that a monthly joint call is a
good idea. We will observe how the first go around works out before proceeding with this approach.
5. - Perception of UBL
* Issue - Despite our marketing and outreach efforts, we are still being perceived by many
as a Purchase Order standardization effort. What can we do to break this mold?
*Action - Deferred to marketing subcommittee for consideration during next F2F.
6. Agenda planning for the next F2F
*Issue - We need to get containership on the agenda for joint sessions in Burlington. In fact, we
need to ensure that the issue gets resolved 100% at that meeting, because the issue is
important (and perhaps contentious?) enough to keep the UBL effort from progressing
until it's decided. Other topics I'd like to propose for joint and/or whole-TC sessions:
- An overview of the latest CCTS work
- Second-tier attributes (impacted by CCTS work)
- Date/time (impacted by CCTS work)
- Content referencing (impacted by CCTS work)
- An overview of the latest CCTS work
- Second-tier attributes (impacted by CCTS work)
- Date/time (impacted by CCTS work)
- Content referencing (impacted by CCTS work)
Other Issues
- Role and value of CCTS to UBL
*Discussion - several additional topics identified. Consensus that more
joint sessions are necessary/appropriate.
*A Proposal was made that Chairs propose agenda and length/topics within one week to CSC list.
Proposals should include methodology, modeling, perception of UBL. CSC agreed with this approach.
7. Scope/Dimensions
Issue: Another point that I think the CSC could discuss is how (method and expression
methodology) we should define the scope/dimensions of our standard UBL 80/20
document structures so that it is clear to UBL users where their particular
requirements for context extensions kick in. Examples of possible scope
statements for the UBL Order might be:
a) No substitute products
b) One delivery point per order
c) Supports cross-border trading
* Item deferred until next call.
8. New Item - Arofan sees fragmentation into too many groups. We have lots of
technically important pieces that are not being properly represented, and wants to make
sure that organization is aligned properly to ensure proper representation. In the interests
of coordination, we may want to figure out how to regroup. Jon suggested that if Arofan
has proposal, he should get together with Jon and Mark as Chair and Vice-Chair. Arofan agreed.
9. Adjourn.
*Adjourned at Y:04
Mark
Mark Crawford
Research Fellow - LMI XML Lead
Vice Chair - OASIS UBL TC
Editor - UN/CEFACT Core Components
______
Logistics Management Institute
2000 Corporate Ridge, McLean, VA 22102-7805
(703) 917-7177 Fax (703) 917-7518
Wireless (703) 655-4810
mcrawford@lmi.org
http://www.lmi.org
"Opportunity is what you make of it"
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