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Subject: Re: [ubl-csc] Summary of my confusion in 0.80 vis-a-vis Londondecisions
OK, now I understand why you were so concerned and why I probably seemed to you to be so nonchalant, maintaining that the changes proposed should not cause you to lose sleep... I believe there was a massive misunderstanding between us. I did not, as far as I remember, say that there was going to be no type reuse, as you obviously heard me say. I did not say, as far as I remember, that for each global element there was going to be a type to be used for that, and only that, element. It is obviously what you heard, but it is not what I said. The reason I'm pretty sure that's not what I said is that I would certainly oppose such proposal, and I would have probably been as disturbed by it as you were (for reasons that were a mystery for me at the time). HTH G. Ken Holman wrote: > Good morning CSC members, > > Per yesterday's CSC meeting, I would like to summarize my perspective > on a very confusing situation in which I find myself regarding > migrating FPSC work from 0.70 to 0.80. I've been on the critical path > waiting for 0.80 schemas to begin the next phase of FPSC work by team > members. > > Leaving London I was under the impression I would need to abandon my > 0.70 approach to stylesheet modularization based on the Local/Global > decision that practically every element would have a unique type in > order to support database applications and other type-based systems, > including the yet to be standardized XSLT/XPath 2.0 family of > standards based on W3C Schema. > > XSLT/XPath 1.0 are not based on W3C Schema but are based on XML and > Namespaces, thus being a "pure" XML application of label-based > processing. This is what 0.70 was based on and what I was hoping to > base 0.80 on. > > In discussions with Eduardo, I gathered that the 0.70 practice of: > > <xsd:element name="BuyerParty" type="cat:PartyType" /> > <xsd:element name="FreightForwarderParty" type="cat:PartyType" /> > > which would produce a common set of labels as defined by the single > PartyType for the components of the parties, was being abandoned. I > understood that the global/local decision would produce unique types > for each label (with the documented exception of @ID and @CODE) with > results along the lines of (modulo namespaces): > > <xsd:element name="BuyerParty" type="cat:BuyerPartyPartyType" /> > <xsd:element name="FreightForwarderParty" > type="cat:FreightForwarderPartyType" /> > > ... thus requiring me to abandon my 0.70 approach to modularization > and start from scratch redesigning my XSLT/XPath 1.0 stylesheets to be > type-based and not label-based. > > I can accept this decision since I had my opportunity to voice my > opposition (though surprisingly to me in London I was ruled out of > order expressing the issue as it was deemed irrelevant to the > discussion). > > When the 0.80 draft 3 schemas arrived this week, I was surprised to > see common types being used in the same pattern as was used in 0.70 > which I documented here: > > http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/ubl-lcsc/200306/msg00052.html > > For some reason I do not see in the archives the following response > that I received from Chee-Kai, even though LCSC is cc'ed on it: > >> Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 23:52:56 +0800 (SGT) >> From: Chin Chee Kai <cheekai@StanfordAlumni.org> >> To: "G. Ken Holman" <gkholman@CraneSoftwrights.com> >> cc: UBL LCSC <ubl-lcsc@lists.oasis-open.org> >> Subject: Re: [ubl-lcsc] Agenda the next meeting of the UBL Library >> Content subcommittee to be held on TUESDAY 24th June between 8 and >> 10a.m California time >> >> This isn't so much of a global/local issue than a type-reuse issue. >> >> The type-reuse mechanism (what you described as "single type >> for all parties") was carried over from the 0.80 spreadsheets' >> model change to reuse more types that are literally exact >> copies with different names when they were in 0.70 (as you >> pointed out). I think there was no position change from >> the London meeting on encouraging type-reuse. >> >> Hope this helps. >> >> >> Best Regards, >> Chin Chee-Kai >> SoftML > > > In response to the above note, I started a thread attempting to > clarify the issue, because his final sentence is the *opposite* of > what I remember from the London meeting: > > http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/ubl-lcsc/200306/msg00054.html > > Chee-Kai's response echoed for me what were many of my own arguments > in London against the changes I perceived were happening: > > http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/ubl-lcsc/200306/msg00056.html > > I summarized my London misconceptions in the new light of Chee-Kai's > explications and concluded my thread here: > > http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/ubl-lcsc/200306/msg00058.html > > My objective in bringing this up in the CSC meeting was to (1) > apologize to Jon and others in UBL for my technical arguments in > London being unfounded, (2) I was hoping that Eduardo would have been > at the meeting in order to raise in discussion his points to me in > London that led me to conclude the opposite of what Chee-Kai has been > reflecting in the schema expressions, thus perhaps helping others who > heard our arguments in London better understand what is going on, and > (3) ask what documents would give me a better summary of the > local/global issues as applied to UBL so I can be in a better position > to describe the issue to others. > > Not being a member or lurker of NDRSC I didn't track the discussions > on the fly and so was hoping there might be a summary document > somewhere I can cite in my descriptions of the situation. > > So, it would seem that my FPSC 0.80 work is a lot more progressed than > I thought it would be now that I can base a lot of the work on my 0.70 > results, and I can progress the critical path of FPSC with the Draft 3 > schemas as delivered by Chee-Kai. > > I apologize for my confusion and I hope the above has helped others. > Thanks for your patience with me. > > ..................... Ken > > > -- > Upcoming hands-on courses: XSLT/XPath North America: Aug 12, 2003 > - XSL-FO North America: Aug 4, 2003 > > G. Ken Holman mailto:gkholman@CraneSoftwrights.com > Crane Softwrights Ltd. http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/o/ > Box 266, Kars, Ontario CANADA K0A-2E0 +1(613)489-0999 (F:-0995) > ISBN 0-13-065196-6 Definitive XSLT and XPath > ISBN 0-13-140374-5 Definitive XSL-FO > ISBN 1-894049-08-X Practical Transformation Using XSLT and XPath > ISBN 1-894049-11-X Practical Formatting Using XSL-FO > Member of the XML Guild of Practitioners: http://XMLGuild.info > Male Breast Cancer Awareness http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/o/bc > > > You may leave a Technical Committee at any time by visiting > http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/ubl-csc/members/leave_workgroup.php > -- Eduardo Gutentag | e-mail: eduardo.gutentag@Sun.COM Web Technologies and Standards | Phone: +1 510 550 4616 x31442 Sun Microsystems Inc. | W3C AC Rep / OASIS TAB Chair
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