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Subject: RE: RE: [ubl-dev] Datatype Methodology RE: [ubl-dev] SBS and Restricted Data Types
I practice though (not necessarily recommended) one might just edit the schemas to apply such a restriction artificially if the schemas are then to be kept private. Not sure what UBL might wish to recommend about that. If changing the namespaces this might be more acceptable (but perhaps less useful, depending on the situation). Can anyone explain what ATG2 recommends about such customisation, perhaps particularly regarding datatypes? Not sure whether this is actually customisation or just reuse of the schema artifacts, especially if there is no change of namespace but the schemas are for internal use only. The matter is then how to make an agreement with others to apply such restrictions: not sure whether one should use same namespace but edited schemas for that purpose. All the best Stephen Green Quoting stephen.green@systml.co.uk: > Hi Joe > > Absolutely. Sorry, I'd forgotten this and it isn't all > that obvious. The thing is that the datatypes UBL uses are > mostly what the CCTS calls unqualified. To redefine them > one really (as, thankfully, Mark Crawford explained earlier) > has to create new datatypes based on them which are called > qualified datatypes. The element based at present on the > unqualified datatype would have to somehow be replaced, > I think, not being able to see how to do it any other way, > with a new element based on the restricted qualified > datatype. To my mind it needs a new element and a restricting > out of the old element, rather than a redefine of the old > element. I can't see how to do the latter with XSD derivation. > If an element was based on a UBL-qualified datatype then maybe, > since it would be under UBL control as it were, one could > use XSD redefine to restrict it. That is interesting. It may > mean that restriction is limited by use of an unqualified > datatype, especially when CCTS (and UBL) compliance is required. > I think the same applies to the XSD substitution group method. > > All the best > > Stephen Green > > > > > > Quoting Chiusano Joseph <chiusano_joseph@bah.com>: > >> P.S. Regarding xsd:redefine: A redefine of this element (Carrier Name, >> represented as cbc:Name) does not seem possible (unless my dusting off >> of the xsd:redefine feature brings misunderstanding with it), as one >> would need to redefine its type, which is cbc:NameType, to have a max of >> 35 characters rather than an unlimited number. >> >> However, this would cause a ripple effect across all other references to >> the cbc:Name element within the Despatch Advice schema (through >> references within the Common Aggregate Components schema), which would >> in effect cause all other cbc:Name elements to be a max of 35 >> characters. This may or may not be the desired outcome - even if by >> chance all should be 35 characters, this of course will not always be >> the case. >> >> So unless I am missing something (which someone will tell me I am >> sure:), the xsd:redefine feature will not work in this case. All the >> more reason we need alternate approaches. >> >> Joe >> >> Joseph Chiusano >> Associate >> Booz Allen Hamilton >> >> 700 13th St. NW, Suite 1100 >> Washington, DC 20005 >> O: 202-508-6514 >> C: 202-251-0731 >> Visit us online@ http://www.boozallen.com >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Chiusano Joseph [mailto:chiusano_joseph@bah.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 3:41 PM >> To: David RR Webber (XML); Stephen Green >> Cc: ubl-dev@lists.oasis-open.org >> Subject: RE: RE: [ubl-dev] Datatype Methodology RE: [ubl-dev] SBS and >> Restricted Data Types >> >> David, >> >> Thinking more about CAM here: How efficient and straightforward would it >> be to restrict the data type of - picking a schema and element >> completely at random here - the Carrier Name element in the UBL 2.0 >> Despatch Advice schema to, say, a maximum of 35 characters? >> >> Here is the path to that element: >> DespatchAdvice/Shipment/Consignment/CarrierParty/PartyName/Name >> >> Thanks, >> Joe >> >> Joseph Chiusano >> Associate >> Booz Allen Hamilton >> >> 700 13th St. NW, Suite 1100 >> Washington, DC 20005 >> O: 202-508-6514 >> C: 202-251-0731 >> Visit us online@ http://www.boozallen.com >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: David RR Webber (XML) [mailto:david@drrw.info] >> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 11:03 AM >> To: Stephen Green >> Cc: ubl-dev@lists.oasis-open.org >> Subject: RE: RE: [ubl-dev] Datatype Methodology RE: [ubl-dev] SBS and >> Restricted Data Types >> >> Stephen, >> >> I follow your thoughts here. >> >> We're actively re-visiting on which pieces of the CAM template should be >> required and which non-normative / extensible. >> >> Right now the <DataValidation> and <ExternalMapping> are optional. Also >> in jCAM Martin has implemented Maven with these so they are fully >> extensible - but obviously that is then non-normative - but I have not >> yet updated the spec' to reflect that change. It's a critical direction >> - the realization that you cannot perscribe everything for everyone - >> and that instead - you provide normative tools for those parts people >> expect the standard to - while giving flexiblity - but in a known and >> predictable and re-usable way - for those peices they traditionally >> expect to have control over. >> >> The other normative sections are of course tailorable to match the >> particular implementors vision and can include only those feartures and >> parts that suit (it's just XML markup!). >> >> What I would expect is that the CAM template would be a base-line one - >> that implementors could then refine and extend to their own local needs. >> This I think is inline with the notion of SBS - having a jump-start kit >> that people can quickly use by default - and then refine and extend in >> practice. Use of <include> is critical to provide separation between >> such base-line templates and local extensions. And then context is vital >> for people to understand the use model for each template. >> >> DW >> >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> Subject: Re: RE: [ubl-dev] Datatype Methodology RE: [ubl-dev] SBS and >> Restricted Data Types >> From: "Stephen Green" <stephen_green@bristol-city.gov.uk> >> Date: Wed, May 10, 2006 10:35 am >> To: <ubl-dev@lists.oasis-open.org> >> >> This makes me think UBL might be benefitted from CAM templates based on >> a profile of CAM which covers the gaps. Maybe one profile without the >> 'context' bit (CCTS concept of it, not CL methodology concept of >> document context) and one with (so one doesn't have to implement a >> full-scale CCTS context-sensitive system unless there is a need to). >> There may be other bits of CAM not needed in such UBL implementations >> too, or parts which UBL duplicates which could be profiled-out. >> >> Stephen Green >> >>>>> "David RR Webber (XML)" <david@drrw.info> 05/10/06 15:02 PM >>> >> Chin, >> >> I was trying to not get into nitty-gritty angle bracket stuff - but >> here's a 20,000 foot view. >> >> The CAM template consists of 5 sections: >> >> <Header> >> <AssemblyStructure> >> <BusinessUseContext> >> <DataValidations> >> <ExternalMapping> >> >> We can equate the two <AssemblyStructure> and <BusinessUseContext> to >> the layering approach - where UBL provides the structure definition - >> and the context section then exposes the delta between the generic and >> subset. You can use <include> in the structure section to reference a >> particular UBL sample. >> >> Basically if you look in the <BusinessUseContext> section and you see >> nothing - then you know people are using that included UBL sample as-is! >> >> >> Otherwise - the Header can come into play next - because that is where >> you define your global context variables that you might need - for >> example boolean $export_order. >> >> So - in the context section you can have default rules - I would expect >> you to have these normally - as these apply to all context instances and >> use - these are identified in the XML by - >> >> <Rules><default><context> <!-- default rules --> </context>/default> >> .... >> >> After that - you have specific context rules - here is where you would >> put the typical refinements and crosschecks (e.g. if $export_order then >> <export_manifest> required mandatory element, etc) associated with your >> use case - these can reference global $ variables - or be value driven >> within the data stream - e.g. : >> >> <context >> condition="PHS398_ResearchPlan:TypeOfApplication='Resubmission'"> >> <constraint action="makeMandatory(//RR_SF424:FederalID)" /> >> <constraint action="setLength(//RR_SF424:FederalID,15)" /> </context> >> </Rules> >> >> So you can see the deltas are explicitly called out and labelled by >> context - and you can find them quickly without having to grope through >> the XML structure itself line-by-line. >> >> CAM also provides you with a library of 30+ functions - so you can >> manipulate the structure tree - pruning or selecting, changing from >> optional to mandatory, etc, rule driven. I like to say that XSD schema >> provides you with a picture map of all the possible structural varients >> that you may encounter - whereas CAM restricts this to the exact >> structure layout that you need for your particular context and usage. >> >> DW >> >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> Subject: RE: [ubl-dev] Datatype Methodology RE: [ubl-dev] SBS and >> Restricted Data Types >> From: Chin Chee-Kai <cheekai@softml.net> >> Date: Tue, May 09, 2006 9:21 pm >> To: UBL-Dev <ubl-dev@lists.oasis-open.org> >> >> Hi David, >> >> Very much so, certain level of semantics processing that is common may >> be extracted and stored away as what you call sub-component templates. >> >> You mentioned that CAM already handles the deltas by making them >> explicit so business users can readily inspect them. It sounds good, >> but in what manner does CAM store and manifest the deltas? Let's say we >> use the string length restriction from infinite to 30-char >> for example. How does CAM indicate this delta? (Sorry for asking >> something so simple relative to CAM as I haven't much exposure to >> CAM yet). If he way CAM does it is usable, there may be something >> which UBL customisation could incorporate. >> >> >> Best Regards, >> Chin Chee-Kai >> SoftML >> Tel: +65-6820-2979 >> Fax: +65-6820-2979 >> Email: cheekai@SoftML.Net >> http://SoftML.Net/ >> >> >> On Tue, 9 May 2006, David RR Webber (XML) wrote: >> >>>> Chin, >>>> >>>> ... >>>> >>>> Another tool here is <include> statements. Where a template fragment >>>> is created that handles default processing of common blocks of XML >>>> content (address is an obvious one). Being able to create >>>> sub-components templates - breaking the overall processing down into >>>> smaller more manageable chunks is another notion that helps to >>>> implement concepts such as SBS. >>>> >>>> DW >>>> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> This publicly archived list supports open discussion on implementing the >> UBL OASIS Standard. To minimize spam in the archives, you must subscribe >> before posting. >> >> [Un]Subscribe/change address: http://www.oasis-open.org/mlmanage/ >> Alternately, using email: list-[un]subscribe@lists.oasis-open.org >> List archives: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/ubl-dev/ >> Committee homepage: http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/ubl/ >> List Guidelines: http://www.oasis-open.org/maillists/guidelines.php >> Join OASIS: http://www.oasis-open.org/join/ >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> This publicly archived list supports open discussion on implementing the >> UBL OASIS Standard. To minimize spam in the archives, you must subscribe >> before posting. >> >> [Un]Subscribe/change address: http://www.oasis-open.org/mlmanage/ >> Alternately, using email: list-[un]subscribe@lists.oasis-open.org >> List archives: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/ubl-dev/ >> Committee homepage: http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/ubl/ >> List Guidelines: http://www.oasis-open.org/maillists/guidelines.php >> Join OASIS: http://www.oasis-open.org/join/ >> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> This publicly archived list supports open discussion on implementing the >> UBL OASIS Standard. To minimize spam in the archives, you must subscribe >> before posting. >> >> [Un]Subscribe/change address: http://www.oasis-open.org/mlmanage/ >> Alternately, using email: list-[un]subscribe@lists.oasis-open.org >> List archives: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/ubl-dev/ >> Committee homepage: http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/ubl/ >> List Guidelines: http://www.oasis-open.org/maillists/guidelines.php >> Join OASIS: http://www.oasis-open.org/join/ >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> This publicly archived list supports open discussion on implementing the >> UBL OASIS Standard. To minimize spam in the archives, you must subscribe >> before posting. >> >> [Un]Subscribe/change address: http://www.oasis-open.org/mlmanage/ >> Alternately, using email: list-[un]subscribe@lists.oasis-open.org >> List archives: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/ubl-dev/ >> Committee homepage: http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/ubl/ >> List Guidelines: http://www.oasis-open.org/maillists/guidelines.php >> Join OASIS: http://www.oasis-open.org/join/ >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> This publicly archived list supports open discussion on implementing the >> UBL OASIS Standard. To minimize spam in the archives, you must subscribe >> before posting. >> >> [Un]Subscribe/change address: http://www.oasis-open.org/mlmanage/ >> Alternately, using email: list-[un]subscribe@lists.oasis-open.org >> List archives: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/ubl-dev/ >> Committee homepage: http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/ubl/ >> List Guidelines: http://www.oasis-open.org/maillists/guidelines.php >> Join OASIS: http://www.oasis-open.org/join/ >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> This publicly archived list supports open discussion on implementing >> the UBL OASIS Standard. To minimize spam in the >> archives, you must subscribe before posting. >> >> [Un]Subscribe/change address: http://www.oasis-open.org/mlmanage/ >> Alternately, using email: list-[un]subscribe@lists.oasis-open.org >> List archives: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/ubl-dev/ >> Committee homepage: http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/ubl/ >> List Guidelines: http://www.oasis-open.org/maillists/guidelines.php >> Join OASIS: http://www.oasis-open.org/join/ >> >> > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > This publicly archived list supports open discussion on implementing > the UBL OASIS Standard. To minimize spam in the > archives, you must subscribe before posting. > > [Un]Subscribe/change address: http://www.oasis-open.org/mlmanage/ > Alternately, using email: list-[un]subscribe@lists.oasis-open.org > List archives: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/ubl-dev/ > Committee homepage: http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/ubl/ > List Guidelines: http://www.oasis-open.org/maillists/guidelines.php > Join OASIS: http://www.oasis-open.org/join/ > >
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