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Subject: RE: [ubl-dev] ebXML approval retrospective


Fulton,
 
Agreed - precisely - not much a reflection on ebXML - more on the state
of play in IT itself and level of maturity generally in IT.
 
Also I think people need to understand the deep sense of disappointment
and betrayal that occurred around the events of those 18 months.  The
highs and the lows.
 
It all seemed like the fairytale would happen - the height of the .COM
era; supping cups with the big and powerful corporations at the highest
levels along with international buy-in.  Executive meetings,
sponsorship, media and TV attention, venture investment, IPOs, exotic
locales, bravely reaching out to new frontiers, proving the doubters
wrong, etc.  And those were thus heady and intoxicating times.
 
But then we woke up to find it was just another false dream and the
nightmare of real life intruded oh so ugly again.  The prince charmings
morphed into wolves who had gobbled up the heroines, sold worthless life
insurance policies to your close friends and screwed your sister and
lied to your face - and so everyone is looking and thinking "and you
are surprised, why???"
 
Meanwhile - people have found interesting and creative ways of
delivering ebXML-based solutions that provide real life value to a
range of citizens across the globe.  Clearly that is good - and you can
make the strong case that much of this would not be happening if ebXML
had not been brought into existance.  And new an interesting ebXML
technologies are emerging that extend the foundation, and slowly but
surely the most challenging aspects of the ebXML solution stack are
being completed and being introduced and used.
 
Just like noone today is selling the original Macintosh, so noone
expects to buy the original ebXML.  And in the same way - the original
Macintosh is not a failure because of this - quite the opposite - an
innovative approach that has taken years to bring to the mainstream and
is now accepted as part of the fabric of all PCs that are sold today.
 
So - I'm not too interested in crying into cups about what should have
been - when clearly there is so much already happening in ebXML and so
much more yet to be accomplished.
 
Personally I'm very proud of what we have accomplished in 5 years - and
very much look forward to the next five years and build on that
foundation.
 
Cheers, DW
 


 -------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: [ubl-dev] ebXML approval retrospective
From: Fulton Wilcox <fulton.wilcox@coltsnecksolutions.com>
Date: Thu, May 11, 2006 9:17 pm
To: "'David RR Webber (XML)'" <david@drrw.info>, 'Bill Chessman'
<bill.chessman@inovis.com>
Cc: ubl-dev@lists.oasis-open.org, EDI-L@yahoogroups.com, 'Klaus-Dieter
Naujok' <klaus@naujok.us>

Dave,

The dismal evaluation I presume relates to Klaus's definition of success
-
to quote from Klaus's blog, that the ebXML standards would enable
"...anyone
out of the blue to engage with anyone else anywhere else."

The glass is about 1% full in meeting that expectation with
machine-to-machine dialogs.

In the same context, SOA/SOAP model is moving ahead none too rapidly
either,
with most successes being "intramural." 

The currently ongoing debates concerning UBL schema content constraints
are
symptomatic of the fundamental forces of complexity and "particularity"
that
must be accommodated before that glass gets very full.


Fulton Wilcox
Colts Neck Solutions LLC

-----Original Message-----
From: David RR Webber (XML) [mailto:david@drrw.info] 
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 5:32 PM
To: Bill Chessman
Cc: ubl-dev@lists.oasis-open.org; EDI-L@yahoogroups.com; Klaus-Dieter
Naujok
Subject: RE: [ubl-dev] ebXML approval retrospective

Bill, 

I've just taken a few moments here to read Klaus's piece. 

Wow - even by Klaus's standards this is a dismal and self-deprecating
attack. 

I'm here to tell everyone that the world of ebXML is nowhere near as
forgotten and 
doomed as Klaus would have you think - and that Klaus really is down on
himself 
when he should be reading more of the items on
http://ebxmlforum.net/5-years/  
and taking some credit for positive outcomes! 

Afterall noone ever said this was going to be easy!! 

I'd take issue with many of Klaus's assertions and his outlook. 

1) Turns out the big players DO have current ebXML support in their
products, Oracle, IBM ,Sun, BEA, SAP, Fujitsu, Sysbase, etc will all
sell you their solutions with ebXML support in them.  And Oracles' is
brand new - their iHub support for ebXML was released at end of 2005
(and its very good BTW as I've seen it close up).

2) He forgets that ebXML B2B remains the ONLY certified XML
interoperable solution out there - with more than a dozen vendors
completing the interoperability suite. 
 
3) There are industries that have standardized on ebXML - PIDX
(agro-chemical), HL7 healthcare, electrical power - and we see the
auto-industry also garnering the benefits of using ebMS too and growing
its use. 
 
4) There are large scale deployments - the whole of Norway is using
ebXML for healthcare insurance, and the NHS in UK is using it for
supplychain support.  So OK - in Klaus's self-deprecating stance -
these are just tiny little countries on the fringe of Europe that noone
pays much mind to. 
 
5) Governments really do appreciate the value of open public standards
and open public implementations.  While ebXML may not have gone in the
direction Klaus wanted for it - nevertheless it is healthy and primed
to be an important part of where the internet and eBusiness is going -
driven by the open source and open services revolution. 
 
6) ebXML registry for secure document storage (aka IHE/XDS) is about to
be THE solution - and ditto for ebXML Regsitry and semantic content
retrieval.  There is some serious momentum and sophisticated community
building behind this - and yes - this is exactly the sort of thing we
wanted registry to drive. 
 
7) The new OASIS BPSS work is ground breaking - and OASIS just approved
the BCM work - that is founded 
   from the original ebXML / CEFACT UMM concepts.  The ebXML solution
stack is changing the way people 
   approach engineering their solutions - and yes - this does take time
to seep into the IT conciousness. 
 
Klaus - come on man - GIVE ME A BREAK!  Just because noone is having a
huge party and lotsa Hollywood style bruhah does not mean you can sit
at your computer terminal and wail into your weak thin American beer,
or cheap Californian wine and depress us all!  Just because ebXML did
not do everything you thought it should you cannot ignore what your
child has achieved!  I feel like the prodigal son here - and Dad just
does not want to entertain anything good could have come of his
offspring once he left home and went off on his own.  

This is the new wave internet community world and we know better.  Grass
roots is more important than Redmondian brash PR. 
 
Get on board the new ebXML and enjoy!  We have an awful lot to be proud
of and much to thank you for - so quick raining on your own parade -
I'm not going to join you in wanting to suck on lemons when I can eat
cake and pizza and drink great English beer!! 
 
The best of ebXML is yet to come and we can be very proud of what we
have already accomplished and the foundations we have created... 
 
Remember when everyone trashed Apple as a crippled and broken spear and
Klaus was the only guy we knew who had an Apple Mac?!?   
 
Cheers, DW

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [ubl-dev] ebXML approval retrospective
From: "Bill Chessman" <bill.chessman@inovis.com>
Date: Thu, May 11, 2006 1:01 pm
To: <ubl-dev@lists.oasis-open.org>, <EDI-L@yahoogroups.com>

All,



Anybody else notice that today, May 11, 2006, is the 5th anniversary of
the approval of the original ebXML project?  I see that the chairman of
the original project (Klaus-Dieter Naujok) has put up some retrospective
commentaries on his blog page at
http://www.klauskorner.com/MyBlog/MyBlog.html.  For those nostalgic
folks that participated, there's even a video from that closing approval
meeting.



Still wondering where the story goes from here...



Best regards,

Bill Chessman

Inovis(tm) 


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