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Subject: RE: [ubl-dev] ebXML approval retrospective
Fulton, Agreed - precisely - not much a reflection on ebXML - more on the state of play in IT itself and level of maturity generally in IT. Also I think people need to understand the deep sense of disappointment and betrayal that occurred around the events of those 18 months. The highs and the lows. It all seemed like the fairytale would happen - the height of the .COM era; supping cups with the big and powerful corporations at the highest levels along with international buy-in. Executive meetings, sponsorship, media and TV attention, venture investment, IPOs, exotic locales, bravely reaching out to new frontiers, proving the doubters wrong, etc. And those were thus heady and intoxicating times. But then we woke up to find it was just another false dream and the nightmare of real life intruded oh so ugly again. The prince charmings morphed into wolves who had gobbled up the heroines, sold worthless life insurance policies to your close friends and screwed your sister and lied to your face - and so everyone is looking and thinking "and you are surprised, why???" Meanwhile - people have found interesting and creative ways of delivering ebXML-based solutions that provide real life value to a range of citizens across the globe. Clearly that is good - and you can make the strong case that much of this would not be happening if ebXML had not been brought into existance. And new an interesting ebXML technologies are emerging that extend the foundation, and slowly but surely the most challenging aspects of the ebXML solution stack are being completed and being introduced and used. Just like noone today is selling the original Macintosh, so noone expects to buy the original ebXML. And in the same way - the original Macintosh is not a failure because of this - quite the opposite - an innovative approach that has taken years to bring to the mainstream and is now accepted as part of the fabric of all PCs that are sold today. So - I'm not too interested in crying into cups about what should have been - when clearly there is so much already happening in ebXML and so much more yet to be accomplished. Personally I'm very proud of what we have accomplished in 5 years - and very much look forward to the next five years and build on that foundation. Cheers, DW -------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: [ubl-dev] ebXML approval retrospective From: Fulton Wilcox <fulton.wilcox@coltsnecksolutions.com> Date: Thu, May 11, 2006 9:17 pm To: "'David RR Webber (XML)'" <david@drrw.info>, 'Bill Chessman' <bill.chessman@inovis.com> Cc: ubl-dev@lists.oasis-open.org, EDI-L@yahoogroups.com, 'Klaus-Dieter Naujok' <klaus@naujok.us> Dave, The dismal evaluation I presume relates to Klaus's definition of success - to quote from Klaus's blog, that the ebXML standards would enable "...anyone out of the blue to engage with anyone else anywhere else." The glass is about 1% full in meeting that expectation with machine-to-machine dialogs. In the same context, SOA/SOAP model is moving ahead none too rapidly either, with most successes being "intramural." The currently ongoing debates concerning UBL schema content constraints are symptomatic of the fundamental forces of complexity and "particularity" that must be accommodated before that glass gets very full. Fulton Wilcox Colts Neck Solutions LLC -----Original Message----- From: David RR Webber (XML) [mailto:david@drrw.info] Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 5:32 PM To: Bill Chessman Cc: ubl-dev@lists.oasis-open.org; EDI-L@yahoogroups.com; Klaus-Dieter Naujok Subject: RE: [ubl-dev] ebXML approval retrospective Bill, I've just taken a few moments here to read Klaus's piece. Wow - even by Klaus's standards this is a dismal and self-deprecating attack. I'm here to tell everyone that the world of ebXML is nowhere near as forgotten and doomed as Klaus would have you think - and that Klaus really is down on himself when he should be reading more of the items on http://ebxmlforum.net/5-years/ and taking some credit for positive outcomes! Afterall noone ever said this was going to be easy!! I'd take issue with many of Klaus's assertions and his outlook. 1) Turns out the big players DO have current ebXML support in their products, Oracle, IBM ,Sun, BEA, SAP, Fujitsu, Sysbase, etc will all sell you their solutions with ebXML support in them. And Oracles' is brand new - their iHub support for ebXML was released at end of 2005 (and its very good BTW as I've seen it close up). 2) He forgets that ebXML B2B remains the ONLY certified XML interoperable solution out there - with more than a dozen vendors completing the interoperability suite. 3) There are industries that have standardized on ebXML - PIDX (agro-chemical), HL7 healthcare, electrical power - and we see the auto-industry also garnering the benefits of using ebMS too and growing its use. 4) There are large scale deployments - the whole of Norway is using ebXML for healthcare insurance, and the NHS in UK is using it for supplychain support. So OK - in Klaus's self-deprecating stance - these are just tiny little countries on the fringe of Europe that noone pays much mind to. 5) Governments really do appreciate the value of open public standards and open public implementations. While ebXML may not have gone in the direction Klaus wanted for it - nevertheless it is healthy and primed to be an important part of where the internet and eBusiness is going - driven by the open source and open services revolution. 6) ebXML registry for secure document storage (aka IHE/XDS) is about to be THE solution - and ditto for ebXML Regsitry and semantic content retrieval. There is some serious momentum and sophisticated community building behind this - and yes - this is exactly the sort of thing we wanted registry to drive. 7) The new OASIS BPSS work is ground breaking - and OASIS just approved the BCM work - that is founded from the original ebXML / CEFACT UMM concepts. The ebXML solution stack is changing the way people approach engineering their solutions - and yes - this does take time to seep into the IT conciousness. Klaus - come on man - GIVE ME A BREAK! Just because noone is having a huge party and lotsa Hollywood style bruhah does not mean you can sit at your computer terminal and wail into your weak thin American beer, or cheap Californian wine and depress us all! Just because ebXML did not do everything you thought it should you cannot ignore what your child has achieved! I feel like the prodigal son here - and Dad just does not want to entertain anything good could have come of his offspring once he left home and went off on his own. This is the new wave internet community world and we know better. Grass roots is more important than Redmondian brash PR. Get on board the new ebXML and enjoy! We have an awful lot to be proud of and much to thank you for - so quick raining on your own parade - I'm not going to join you in wanting to suck on lemons when I can eat cake and pizza and drink great English beer!! The best of ebXML is yet to come and we can be very proud of what we have already accomplished and the foundations we have created... Remember when everyone trashed Apple as a crippled and broken spear and Klaus was the only guy we knew who had an Apple Mac?!? Cheers, DW -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [ubl-dev] ebXML approval retrospective From: "Bill Chessman" <bill.chessman@inovis.com> Date: Thu, May 11, 2006 1:01 pm To: <ubl-dev@lists.oasis-open.org>, <EDI-L@yahoogroups.com> All, Anybody else notice that today, May 11, 2006, is the 5th anniversary of the approval of the original ebXML project? I see that the chairman of the original project (Klaus-Dieter Naujok) has put up some retrospective commentaries on his blog page at http://www.klauskorner.com/MyBlog/MyBlog.html. For those nostalgic folks that participated, there's even a video from that closing approval meeting. Still wondering where the story goes from here... Best regards, Bill Chessman Inovis(tm) --------------------------------------------------------------------- This publicly archived list supports open discussion on implementing the UBL OASIS Standard. To minimize spam in the archives, you must subscribe before posting. [Un]Subscribe/change address: http://www.oasis-open.org/mlmanage/ Alternately, using email: list-[un]subscribe@lists.oasis-open.org List archives: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/ubl-dev/ Committee homepage: http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/ubl/ List Guidelines: http://www.oasis-open.org/maillists/guidelines.php Join OASIS: http://www.oasis-open.org/join/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- This publicly archived list supports open discussion on implementing the UBL OASIS Standard. To minimize spam in the archives, you must subscribe before posting. [Un]Subscribe/change address: http://www.oasis-open.org/mlmanage/ Alternately, using email: list-[un]subscribe@lists.oasis-open.org List archives: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/ubl-dev/ Committee homepage: http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/ubl/ List Guidelines: http://www.oasis-open.org/maillists/guidelines.php Join OASIS: http://www.oasis-open.org/join/
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