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Subject: Re: [ubl-dev] B2B and IT standards... interesting paper andGartner's view
Hi All I'm sensing the pressure here to put out what I did to the list. I guess it is a missing piece so I'll add the file below (as I don't think we are allowed attachments on ubl-dev, not sure). Persistence pays off David :-) If anyone wants schemas, etc (even an XForms viewer) to accompany this then ask me offlist,unless I get swamped - which would be nice but unlikely :-) All the best Stephen Green <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?> <Catalogue xmlns="urn:oasis:names:specification:ubl:schema:xsd:Catalogue-2" xmlns:cac="urn:oasis:names:specification:ubl:schema:xsd:CommonAggregateComponents-2" xmlns:cbc="urn:oasis:names:specification:ubl:schema:xsd:CommonBasicComponents-2" xmlns:ccts="urn:un:unece:uncefact:documentation:2" xmlns:ext="urn:oasis:names:specification:ubl:schema:xsd:CommonExtensionComponents-2" xmlns:qdt="urn:oasis:names:specification:ubl:schema:xsd:QualifiedDatatypes-2" xmlns:udt="urn:un:unece:uncefact:data:specification:UnqualifiedDataTypesSchemaModule:2" xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance"; xsi:schemaLocation="urn:oasis:names:specification:ubl:schema:xsd:Catalogue-2 ..\Schemata\maindoc\UBL-Catalogue-2.0.xsd"> <cbc:UBLVersionID>normalizedString</cbc:UBLVersionID> <cbc:CustomizationID>normalizedString</cbc:CustomizationID> <cbc:ProfileID>normalizedString</cbc:ProfileID> <cbc:ID>normalizedString</cbc:ID> <cbc:IssueDate>1967-08-13</cbc:IssueDate> <cac:ProviderParty> <cac:PartyIdentification> <cbc:ID schemeName="PreisShare">normalizedString</cbc:ID> </cac:PartyIdentification> <cac:PartyIdentification> <cbc:ID schemeID="normalizedString">normalizedString</cbc:ID> </cac:PartyIdentification> <cac:PartyName> <cbc:Name languageID="en">String</cbc:Name> </cac:PartyName> <cac:PartyName> <cbc:Name languageID="en-us">String</cbc:Name> </cac:PartyName> <cac:PostalAddress> <cbc:ID>normalizedString</cbc:ID> <cbc:CityName>String</cbc:CityName> <cbc:PostalZone>String</cbc:PostalZone> <cbc:CountrySubentity>String</cbc:CountrySubentity> <cac:AddressLine> <cbc:Line>String</cbc:Line> </cac:AddressLine> <cac:AddressLine> <cbc:Line>String</cbc:Line> </cac:AddressLine> <cac:Country> <cbc:IdentificationCode>normalizedString</cbc:IdentificationCode> <cbc:Name>String</cbc:Name> </cac:Country> </cac:PostalAddress> </cac:ProviderParty> <cac:ReceiverParty> <cac:PartyIdentification> <cbc:ID>normalizedString</cbc:ID> </cac:PartyIdentification> <cac:PartyIdentification> <cbc:ID>normalizedString</cbc:ID> </cac:PartyIdentification> <cac:PartyName> <cbc:Name>String</cbc:Name> </cac:PartyName> <cac:PartyName> <cbc:Name>String</cbc:Name> </cac:PartyName> <cac:PostalAddress> <cbc:ID>normalizedString</cbc:ID> <cbc:CityName>String</cbc:CityName> <cbc:PostalZone>String</cbc:PostalZone> <cbc:CountrySubentity>String</cbc:CountrySubentity> <cac:AddressLine> <cbc:Line>String</cbc:Line> </cac:AddressLine> <cac:AddressLine> <cbc:Line>String</cbc:Line> </cac:AddressLine> <cac:Country> <cbc:IdentificationCode>normalizedString</cbc:IdentificationCode> <cbc:Name>String</cbc:Name> </cac:Country> </cac:PostalAddress> </cac:ReceiverParty> <cac:CatalogueLine> <cbc:ID>normalizedString</cbc:ID> <cac:RequiredItemLocationQuantity> <cac:Price> <cbc:PriceAmount currencyID="AED">3.1415926535897932384626433832795</cbc:PriceAmount> <cbc:BaseQuantity unitCode="C16">3.1415926535897932384626433832795</cbc:BaseQuantity> </cac:Price> </cac:RequiredItemLocationQuantity> <cac:Item> <cbc:Description languageID="en">String</cbc:Description> <cbc:Description languageID="en-us">String</cbc:Description> <cbc:Name>String</cbc:Name> <cac:SellersItemIdentification> <cbc:ID>normalizedString</cbc:ID> </cac:SellersItemIdentification> </cac:Item> </cac:CatalogueLine> <cac:CatalogueLine> <cbc:ID>normalizedString</cbc:ID> <cac:RequiredItemLocationQuantity> <cac:Price> <cbc:PriceAmount currencyID="AED">3.1415926535897932384626433832795</cbc:PriceAmount> <cbc:BaseQuantity unitCode="C16">3.1415926535897932384626433832795</cbc:BaseQuantity> </cac:Price> </cac:RequiredItemLocationQuantity> <cac:Item> <cbc:Description languageID="en">String</cbc:Description> <cbc:Description languageID="en-us">String</cbc:Description> <cbc:Name>String</cbc:Name> <cac:SellersItemIdentification> <cbc:ID>normalizedString</cbc:ID> </cac:SellersItemIdentification> </cac:Item> </cac:CatalogueLine> </Catalogue> >>> David Lyon <david.lyon@preisshare.net> 05/02/07 07:26:57 >>> Hi Roger, After two weeks of asking I can't get anybody to give me a simple example of a UBL catalogue file. They either don't have any or don't want to give me any. Maybe it's just not developed.. .. I really don't know... So if you are doing mass interconnections or about to on a vast scale with UBL, then it obviously that means that you've overcome these issues and are in the clear jetstream... Well, quite frankly, that's very good to hear... Meanwhile, I will very patiently await my example file to come.... I'm interested to see how long it will take.... Best Regards David Roger Bass wrote: > David, > > The points in my email were pretty high level strategic ones. I'm not > quite clear which points if any you're disagreeing with there. > > I do agree that this is all quite some way from the more immediate > concerns faced by SMBs, and the companies trying to solve these > problems for them - which include my company as well as yours. The > behavior you describe of large companies with their "supplier portals" > is very familiar to us too. Indeed, I see that behavior as driving > demand from SMBs for solutions like my company's. And I expect and > hope to see much more of it! > > You say these big companies don't provide any automated upload > capabilities. Well, in specific cases that may or may not be true. > It's certainly not what's promoted, and the individual large companies > may not even know about it, but my sense is that in an increasing > number of cases, there are in fact ways to connect programmatically > using XML standards. I'm working through these issues now with some of > the very big names in the industry so that we can actually deliver a > solution that is able to make those connections at vast scale. > > Best, > Roger > > PS: btw, I didn't get what you meant about business reporting > mechanisms not mentioning this etc > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* David Lyon [mailto:david.lyon@preisshare.net] > *Sent:* Sun 2/4/2007 3:35 PM > *To:* Roger Bass > *Cc:* ubl-dev@lists.oasis-open.org > *Subject:* Re: [ubl-dev] B2B and IT standards... interesting paper and > Gartner's view > > > Hi Roger, > > They're interesting points. > > I'd just like to add an alternate perspective that I see at some of my > clients. They're not the same clients as Gartner would have. They're > much smaller of course. > > A lot of these clients are in reality going backwards in productivity > with regards to IT and B2B standards. > > The reason for this is quite simple. > > Large companies now have complex websites and are more commonly refusing > to do data entry. Instead making their smaller Customers do double entry > instead. First into their own accounting system and then into the > suppliers website/online system. > > This of course goes against the grain of what many of us promote, > exchanging business messaging. But it's quite true. > > I can name many large international companies who work this way. They > don't provide any web-services with automatic upload capabilities. Just > browser based entry screens. > > So whilst Gartner may say it is one way that relates to their own > clients, there is a whole 'nother business world out there where the > reality is entirely different. > > And the numbers of businesses that operate in this 'alternate' system is > the majority by number... but none of the actual business reporting > mechanisms will mention this because of various commercial loyalties and > concerns that are in place with the big players. > > Regards > > Davod > > > Roger Bass wrote: > > In view of the discussion about ebXML and WS-*, I wanted to share a > couple of things that seem potentially relevant. > > > > This paper http://www.w3.org/2007/01/wos-papers/gall > <http://www.w3.org/2007/01/wos-papers/gall> (from a Gartner VP no > less), talks about how the whole WS-* stack is actually antithetical > to web architecture principles, and calls for a new focus at the W3C > on a set of A2A protocols (and by implication, B2B as a subset) that > are more weblike, leaving the big IT middleware vendors to evolve WS-* > on their own. He also makes some interesting points about how > web-like resource architectures are inherently more viral, ie may > proliferate faster (though he doesn't quite say it like that). > > > > Separately, but quite related I think, Gartner's B2B research leads > are articulating a vision that explicitly states that B2B > infrastructure will become the infrastructure for IT outsourcing. And > with services in the cloud proliferating and increasingly valuable, > the architecture for IT outsourcing will increasingly become the > architecture for IT, period. > > > > So, an interesting hypothesis emerges - whatever standards and > technologies win in B2B eventually win everywhere. > > > > The Danish paper implicitly argues the other way around - WS-* is > winning within the enterprise, so it will win in B2B. The points here > suggest that that may not necessarily be so. > > > > Regards, > > Roger > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ Please note the new simpler name for our website: http://www.bristol.gov.uk Our email addresses have also changed - visit http://www.bristol.gov.uk/bigchange for further details. Sign-up for our email bulletin giving news, have-your-say and event information at: http://www.bristol.gov.uk/newsdirect ______________________________________________________________________ Please note the new simpler name for our website: http://www.bristol.gov.uk Our email addresses have also changed - visit http://www.bristol.gov.uk/bigchange for further details. Sign-up for our email bulletin giving news, have-your-say and event information at: http://www.bristol.gov.uk/newsdirect
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