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Subject: [ubl-dev] UBL Basics.. try "Productivity"....
Actually, it works out quite convenient here in UK public sector because we have a set of recommended standards for interoperability which includes CCTS/ISO15000-5 along with UBL (and EAN and eBIS-XML too) http://www.govtalk.gov.uk/egif/specifications.asp#table19 so one of my instances can be called UBL and the other ISO 15000-5 (with a context of something which I could temporarily call STU). This means both comply with my public sector requirements in that sense (maybe the same is so for New Zealand public sector's eGIF). As long as I use each where it is most appropriate I should be high and dry here and maybe later with David L too in New Zealand. http://www.e.govt.nz/standards/e-gif/e-gif-v-3-1/e-gif-v-3-1-total.pdf I notice the latest version has UBL only under consideration and not yet recommended. I notice too that: 1. UBL is down both under business transactions and also data modelling (very pertinent to the last discussion) 2. no other business transaction standard is listed, from what I could see All the best Stephen Green >>> "Stephen Green" <stephen.green@bristol.gov.uk> 12/02/07 10:41:09 >>> Hi Bryan Really it's just about a sophisticated implementation of model-driven architecture, independant of any XML but implementable in XML as well as anything else like SGML, JSON, even CSV and especially EDI. It will probably still be around long after XML is forgotten :-) And that comes from an second generation XML geek :-) I reckon at this rate EDI will outlive XML though. I might even end up having to sit down and learn it myself. I was hoping UBL would give me an alternative. All the best Steve >>> "Bryan Rasmussen" <BRS@itst.dk> 12/02/07 10:31:42 >>> So well... Well I don't much care for the CCTS stuff as a developer, hard to see the benefit to me, but anyway this basically seems to be that UBL should be serializable as various formats. There is already a method for doing subsets and localizations. But this presupposes a usage of UBL that uses namespaces in some way. Is it wanted to have profiles that do not have namespaces? I guess this means no reuse of the XML Schemas. Maybe should do a UBL to RDF conversion. Then the RDF can be serialized in all sorts of ways (said as an RDF hater) Cheers, Bryan Rasmussen -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: Stephen Green [mailto:stephen.green@bristol.gov.uk] Sendt: 12. februar 2007 11:02 Til: ubl-dev@lists.oasis-open.org Emne: Re: SV: [ubl-dev] UBL Basics.. try "Productivity".... Sorry for the big flare-up there folks. I Do think being a standard based on and seeking to be compliant with CCTS (ISO 15000-5, I believe) is the real issue here. That claim makes certain promises to users and, sincerely without wishing to be devisive, I do hope that all of UBL's TC will try to appreciate that. Otherwise UBL is just another Babel language. For some that might be fine but there are others out here who wish that the promise of UBL as a CCTS set of BIEs and not just a set of XML schemas for trade be valued and preserved. This applies to UN/CEFACT's work too. I now sense the weight of what Sue P and Michael D constantly pressed on me that it isn't the XML that it is all about but the CCs and BBIEs. The main factor here is that there should be a way to make an EDI (or alternative NDR implemenation in XML) of those BIEs and still have it get as much respect as UBL. Whether it is then called UBL or ISO 15000-5 with UBL BIEs (or even perhaps just ISO 15000-5 with the same context that UBL's submission of BIEs and CCs to TBG results in) is not the main thing but is still important. Personally I'd like to see 'UBL' mean shorthand for CEFACT- harmonized CCs and BIEs with a certain set of context drivers. This then would allow me to call what we have made for the cataloguing business process and small business application ability pretty much equivalent to UBL in a CCTS sense as UBL's primary schemas. How else would UBL seek to claim that UBL 2 is conformant with UBL 1 (another question altogether). All the best Stephen Green >>> David Lyon <david.lyon@preisshare.net> 11/02/07 02:36:41 >>> Hi Ken, Yes, the document snippet looks good. It seems that I now have something that I can take away and work with. All other points noted. Regards David G. Ken Holman wrote: > At 2007-02-11 10:48 +1100, David Lyon wrote: >> G. Ken Holman wrote: >>> I fully expect preisshare to establish your own customization of UBL >>> Catalogue for your requirements for your community of users. >> I'm starting to learn that one can't just walk in and do a >> "customisation" of UBL. > > Like many valuable things it takes time to create the right thing for > what you need. We've spent five years as a committee to create a > platform on which you can build what you need. > >>> Stephen presented an instance he called an instance of UBL Catalogue >>> ... from my understanding of the committee definition of UBL >>> document-level conformance, it is not an instance of UBL Catalogue, >>> and I didn't want you to believe that it is. >> ok.. but a catalogue/pricelist is such a simple business document. If >> somebody asks for a price on something, it should be a matter of >> minutes before you can produce the output. That's how business in >> Asia is done. People can't wait weeks. > > Fine ... and UBL wasn't designed for people to edit by hand when they > need an instance, though of course that is possible ... it is defined > as an interchange format and you would probably have an application > create the instance you need very quickly through some kind of > database extract. > >> If he has made a mistake, you are better spending your time going in >> and "fixing" the document with an xml editor and showing us how it >> should be done. Just attach it and send it to the list for everybody >> to see. > > Please find below Stephen's instance to you that I've just modified to > pass the UBL 2.0 document constraints for Catalogue. He posted the > original here: > > http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/ubl-dev/200702/msg00064.html > > It would appear that the values are synthesized by a tool (XMLSpy > perhaps?) but I have just passed the content successfully against: > > > http://docs.oasis-open.org/ubl/os-UBL-2.0/xsd/maindoc/UBL-Catalogue-2.0.xsd > > > The original instance from Stephen does not pass the document > constraints, which is the whole point of my thread. Had you followed > it, you would not have created a conforming instance. If you follow > the instance below, since it passes the document constraints, yours > will probably pass the document constraints. > >>> Where specifically did you feel I was making a bogus assertion? >> Those are your words not mine. I don't believe that you did. > > I'll thank you for not putting words in my mouth, David: > > At 2007-02-11 09:24 +1100, David Lyon wrote: >> Anyway, I think your assertions are quite bogus in regards to blame. > > As I said quite earnestly, I had wished I could make the time to help > you when you asked earlier, but I am just too booked to offer > volunteer or commercial assistance. > > My goal in starting the thread was to set the archive straight in my > opinion regarding what a UBL conformant document instance is and is > not so that candidate users of UBL understand what they are dealing with. > > I hope you find the modified version of Stephen's instance below helpful. > > . . . . . . . . Ken > > <?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?> > <Catalogue > xmlns="urn:oasis:names:specification:ubl:schema:xsd:Catalogue-2" > xmlns:cac="urn:oasis:names:specification:ubl:schema:xsd:CommonAggregateCompon ents-2" > xmlns:cbc="urn:oasis:names:specification:ubl:schema:xsd:CommonBasicComponents -2"> > > <cbc:UBLVersionID > schemeID="normalizedString">normalizedString</cbc:UBLVersionID> > <cbc:CustomizationID > schemeID="normalizedString">normalizedString</cbc:CustomizationID> > <cbc:ProfileID > schemeID="normalizedString">normalizedString</cbc:ProfileID> > <cbc:ID schemeID="normalizedString">normalizedString</cbc:ID> > <cbc:IssueDate>1967-08-13</cbc:IssueDate> > <cac:ProviderParty> > <cac:PartyIdentification> > <cbc:ID schemeID="normalizedString">normalizedString</cbc:ID> > </cac:PartyIdentification> > <cac:PartyName> > <cbc:Name>String</cbc:Name> > </cac:PartyName> > <cac:PostalAddress> > <cbc:CityName>String</cbc:CityName> > <cbc:PostalZone>String</cbc:PostalZone> > <cbc:CountrySubentity>String</cbc:CountrySubentity> > <cac:AddressLine> > <cbc:Line>String</cbc:Line> > </cac:AddressLine> > <cac:AddressLine> > <cbc:Line>String</cbc:Line> > </cac:AddressLine> > <cac:Country> > <cbc:IdentificationCode listID="normalizedString" > listURI="http://docs.oasis-open.org/ubl/os-ubl-2.0/cl/gc/default/CountryIdent ificationCode-2.0.gc">normalizedString</cbc:IdentificationCode> > > </cac:Country> > </cac:PostalAddress> > </cac:ProviderParty> > <cac:ReceiverParty> > <cac:PartyIdentification> > <cbc:ID schemeID="normalizedString">normalizedString</cbc:ID> > </cac:PartyIdentification> > <cac:PartyName> > <cbc:Name>String</cbc:Name> > </cac:PartyName> > <cac:PostalAddress> > <cbc:CityName>String</cbc:CityName> > <cbc:PostalZone>String</cbc:PostalZone> > <cbc:CountrySubentity>String</cbc:CountrySubentity> > <cac:AddressLine> > <cbc:Line>String</cbc:Line> > </cac:AddressLine> > <cac:AddressLine> > <cbc:Line>String</cbc:Line> > </cac:AddressLine> > <cac:Country> > <cbc:IdentificationCode listID="normalizedString" > listURI="http://docs.oasis-open.org/ubl/os-ubl-2.0/cl/gc/default/CountryIdent ificationCode-2.0.gc">normalizedString</cbc:IdentificationCode> > > </cac:Country> > </cac:PostalAddress> > </cac:ReceiverParty> > <cac:CatalogueLine> > <cbc:ID schemeID="normalizedString">normalizedString</cbc:ID> > <cac:RequiredItemLocationQuantity> > <cac:Price> > <cbc:PriceAmount > currencyID="USD">3.1415926535897932384626433832795</cbc:PriceAmount> > <cbc:BaseQuantity > unitCode="ZZ">3.1415926535897932384626433832795</cbc:BaseQuantity> > </cac:Price> > </cac:RequiredItemLocationQuantity> > <cac:Item> > <cbc:Name>String</cbc:Name> > <cac:SellersItemIdentification> > <cbc:ID schemeID="normalizedString">normalizedString</cbc:ID> > </cac:SellersItemIdentification> > </cac:Item> > </cac:CatalogueLine> > <cac:CatalogueLine> > <cbc:ID schemeID="normalizedString">normalizedString</cbc:ID> > <cac:RequiredItemLocationQuantity> > <cac:Price> > <cbc:PriceAmount > currencyID="USD">3.1415926535897932384626433832795</cbc:PriceAmount> > <cbc:BaseQuantity > unitCode="ZZ">3.1415926535897932384626433832795</cbc:BaseQuantity> > </cac:Price> > </cac:RequiredItemLocationQuantity> > <cac:Item> > <cbc:Name>String</cbc:Name> > <cac:SellersItemIdentification> > <cbc:ID schemeID="normalizedString">normalizedString</cbc:ID> > </cac:SellersItemIdentification> > </cac:Item> > </cac:CatalogueLine> > </Catalogue> >="n > > -- > World-wide corporate, govt. & user group XML, XSL and UBL training > RSS feeds: publicly-available developer resources and training > G. Ken Holman mailto:gkholman@CraneSoftwrights.com > Crane Softwrights Ltd. http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/u/ > Box 266, Kars, Ontario CANADA K0A-2E0 +1(613)489-0999 (F:-0995) > Male Cancer Awareness Aug'05 http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/u/bc > Legal business disclaimers: http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/legal > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: ubl-dev-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org > For additional commands, e-mail: ubl-dev-help@lists.oasis-open.org > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: ubl-dev-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: ubl-dev-help@lists.oasis-open.org ______________________________________________________________________ Please note the new simpler name for our website: http://www.bristol.gov.uk Our email addresses have also changed - visit http://www.bristol.gov.uk/bigchange for further details. 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