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Subject: Re: SV: [ubl-dev] Hybrid approach to local vs. global
Getting more serious-minded now; I'm persuading
myself strongly that even JSON, say, should be
compliant as an implementation if it adheres to the
model/CCs and BIEs. Who knows what else is
around the corner. So I'm convinced now in my mind
that with a truly mature ATG2 / CEFACT standard (what
should we call it, by the way?) there should be no
normative schemas / NDRs and these should be added
as mere non-normative (or perhaps separately normative)
implementation guides. CAM, RelaxNG, JSON, binary
XML - all should be possible ways to implement the
main standard, with the flexibility of adding BIEs and CCs
too. Separate implementation guides for each technology
could be normative in themselves but none more so than
another, with the option to keep on adding more and
just hints at technologies to map between them or to
specify mappings.
Not that I'm thinking UBL should have been like this. I think
the need was truly there to have one or two sets of schemas
and instance formats only. But now is time to start realising
the CCTS vision and potential. Folk can revert in future to
UBL 2.x if they want that and/or the whole thing with ATG2
falls flat. Look at it like an analogy with photography - there
was first black-and-white, now there's colour but you can
keep using black and white if you like. Colour was expensive
at first but now I wouldn't think it was really more expensive
than black-and-white in a way that determined which you'd #
use. Same with TV, etc. UBL was/is black-and-white. ATG2's
new thing should be colour.
All the best
Stephen Green
>>> "Stephen Green" <stephen.green@bristol.gov.uk> 02/03/07 14:07:00 >>>
I bet David RRW will tell us CAM can do all this already.
Anyway, I bet the CAM approach has a lot of promise
in this area because it doesn't even care if one side
of the mapping is XSD and the other RelaxNG, or whether
there is any schema at all. It concentrates, it seems, on
the instance rather than the schema. I believe there is
a lesson in that (even if it isn't ideal from the SGML point
of view). A lesson for ATG2 - maybe concentrate on the
instances and the models rather than the schemas. So
full and partial instances plus a list of constraints in prose
and the models (in some format) might be ideal, with
non-normative schema (and NDR) * examples * (like
implementation guides) and make just the CCTS models
of CCs and BIEs normative. Extreme view? Maybe the
times are changing :-) From the sounds of it folk might
prefer to write schemas for themselves in Schematron
or CAM anyway for actual validation use - software in
other words - implementation / implementation guide
stuff. Perhaps that should be encouraged more by ATG2.
All the best
Steve
>>> "Stephen Green" <stephen.green@bristol.gov.uk> 02/03/07 13:58:36 >>>
Hi Ken
Surely this would have very limited use - only seems to work
when both sides of the mapping use the same NDR.
Wouldn't it be more efficient to make it possible to map
between two NDRs. There the scope is improved if both
sides of the mapping conform to CCTS and use the same
Core Components. As CCTS/Core Components is an ISO
standard now, wouldn't it be better to make that the bedrock
for the Document Schema Renaming Language (DSRL) and
then the XSLT would presumably have greater usefulness,
though admitedly it might be to complex to do with XSLT
when you don't know the two schema designs. Maybe if
ATG2 decide to go for the hybrid approach with an XSLT
transformation (see my prototype back in the UBL archives
somewhere) then the XSLT could form part of either DSRL
or its successor if the scope is increased to include mappings
between NDRs (schema designs) and perhaps with underlying
Core Component interoperability. Looks then like all singing
from same (ISO) singsheet.
Plus, in there somewhere could it be that both sides don't
have to be ATG2 or UBL and thus my STU might even be allowed
('Simpler Than UBL' design for UBL model), and maybe binary
XML too.
All the best
Stephen Green
>>> "G. Ken Holman" <gkholman@CraneSoftwrights.com> 02/03/07 13:17:39 >>>
At 2007-03-02 12:54 +0100, Bryan Rasmussen wrote:
> >>For example - if the Russian Government said - "we'd love to use UBL -
> >>but we need different tagnames for in country use" - then having the
> >>option to use CAM to morph between localization details and say an EU
> >>base-line - would obviously be enabling... and overall I'm guessing the
> >>bigger goal is UBL adoption and use, rather than say driving XSD
> >>adoption and use!?!
>
> >This isn't a new idea and my comments regarding not supporting this
> >have nothing to do with CAM. ISO/IEC 19757-8 Document Schema
> >Renaming Language (DSRL) was also posited to address the use case of
> >a community of UBL users wanting to have "local" names for a
> >transliterated (not transformed) document vocabulary equivalent in
> >structure to UBL. This has already been discussed.
>
>Is this part of the DSDL?
Yes, it is: http://dsdl.org
Here is the FCD ballot document:
http://www.jtc1sc34.org/repository/0792c.htm
. . . . . . . . Ken
--
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