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Subject: RE: SV: [ubl-dev] Hybrid approach to local vs. global


David

How about using the UBL international data dictionaries. They seem
to do just what you are asking. Someone could tell us if the Danish
one is complete enough yet.

All the best

Steve

>>> "David RR Webber (XML)" <david@drrw.info> 02/03/07 14:29:40 >>>
Steve,

You read my mind!  (See my reply to Michael for details on accomplishing
this).

On your point "surely this would have limited use" - actually the
concept of "transformation at point of use" - allows any-to-any mapping
once you have made the leap of equating your implementation structure to
the reference UID values of the UBL vocabulary items.

This is the Lego bricks approach we conceptualized 10 years ago at the
start of the XML/edi work.

The registry is the core enabling tool for this - to facilitate instant
re-use - by keeping the central "decoding" as a globally accessible
resource.  We're inching towards this in 2007.  UN/CEFACT work on the
registry vocabulary is developing.

We tried last year to hook jCAM to the OMAR - but it proved too complex
to grok OMAR.  Now we have the new REST interface work started for
registry - this should make it trivial to hook jCAM and OMAR together
and store the XML definitions we need of every UBL vocabulary item. And
add an AJAX interface to OMAR - but that's all work "to be done".  We
already have the XSD done (paradoxically!) for that XML content model
for inserting "nouns" into OMAR.

Also - lightweight "local" registry could merely consist of a flatfile
extract from OMAR - single XML - containing just those mappings.
Actually now I've said that - that's a bit of a "duh" item - we could
EASILY do that - if someone wanted to provide us a simple peice of XML
with UBL tagnames and Danish tagnames side-by-side.  Yikes!  Why did I
not think of that before?  Then in jCAM <Extension> section
<as:include> that local XML - and this would be suddenly trivial.  Oh
my!  We really do need to do that.  Anyone up for providing the Danish
tagnames for a sample UBL transaction?

DW

"The way to be is to do" - Confucius (551-472 B.C.)
 

 -------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: SV: [ubl-dev] Hybrid approach to local vs. global
From: "Stephen Green" <stephen.green@bristol.gov.uk>
Date: Fri, March 02, 2007 9:07 am
To: <ubl-dev@lists.oasis-open.org>

I bet David RRW will tell us CAM can do all this already.
Anyway, I bet the CAM approach has a lot of promise 
in this area because it doesn't even care if one side
of the mapping is XSD and the other RelaxNG, or whether
there is any schema at all. It concentrates, it seems, on
the instance rather than the schema. I believe there is
a lesson in that (even if it isn't ideal from the SGML point
of view). A lesson for ATG2 - maybe concentrate on the
instances and the models rather than the schemas. So
full and partial instances plus a list of constraints in prose
and the models (in some format) might be ideal, with
non-normative schema (and NDR) * examples * (like
implementation guides) and make just the CCTS models
of CCs and BIEs normative. Extreme view? Maybe the
times are changing :-) From the sounds of it folk might
prefer to write schemas for themselves in Schematron
or CAM anyway for actual validation use - software in
other words - implementation / implementation guide
stuff. Perhaps that should be encouraged more by ATG2.

All the best

Steve

>>> "Stephen Green" <stephen.green@bristol.gov.uk> 02/03/07 13:58:36 >>>
Hi Ken

Surely this would have very limited use - only seems to work
when both sides of the mapping use the same NDR.

Wouldn't it be more efficient to make it possible to map
between two NDRs. There the scope is improved if both
sides of the mapping conform to CCTS and use the same
Core Components. As CCTS/Core Components is an ISO
standard now, wouldn't it be better to make that the bedrock
for the Document Schema Renaming Language (DSRL) and
then the XSLT would presumably have greater usefulness,
though admitedly it might be to complex to do with XSLT
when you don't know the two schema designs. Maybe if
ATG2 decide to go for the hybrid approach with an XSLT
transformation (see my prototype back in the UBL archives
somewhere) then the XSLT could form part of either DSRL
or its successor if the scope is increased to include mappings
between NDRs (schema designs) and perhaps with underlying
Core Component interoperability. Looks then like all singing
from same (ISO) singsheet.

Plus, in there somewhere could it be that both sides don't
have to be ATG2 or UBL and thus my STU might even be allowed
('Simpler Than UBL' design for UBL model), and maybe binary
XML too.

All the best

Stephen Green

>>> "G. Ken Holman" <gkholman@CraneSoftwrights.com> 02/03/07 13:17:39 >>>
At 2007-03-02 12:54 +0100, Bryan  Rasmussen wrote:
> >>For example - if the Russian Government said - "we'd love to use UBL -
> >>but we need different tagnames for in country use" - then having the
> >>option to use CAM to morph between localization details and say an EU
> >>base-line - would obviously be enabling... and overall I'm guessing the
> >>bigger goal is UBL adoption and use, rather than say driving XSD
> >>adoption and use!?!
>
> >This isn't a new idea and my comments regarding not supporting this
> >have nothing to do with CAM.  ISO/IEC 19757-8 Document Schema
> >Renaming Language (DSRL) was also posited to address the use case of
> >a community of UBL users wanting to have "local" names for a
> >transliterated (not transformed) document vocabulary equivalent in
> >structure to UBL.  This has already been discussed.
>
>Is this part of the DSDL?

Yes, it is:  http://dsdl.org 

Here is the FCD ballot document:

  http://www.jtc1sc34.org/repository/0792c.htm 

. . . . . . . . Ken

--
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Box 266, Kars, Ontario CANADA K0A-2E0    +1(613)489-0999 (F:-0995)
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Legal business disclaimers:  http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/legal 


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