Re: [ubl-dev] Re: [ebxml-dev] P2P for e-business - applications?

[David Lyon <david.lyon@preisshare.net>]

Hi Roger,

Roger Bass wrote:
> The big problem (especially with SMBs) is
> that virtually none of the real business systems SMBs use have any
> notion whatsoever of sending/accepting any such standardized messages to
> configure an exchange. 
I'm jumping in with an opinion. Because later on you mention what we're 
doing with PreisShare so I feel obliged to answer.

What you are saying above is true. Bankers understand transactions and 
messages. They funded and laid the groundwork for much of what we call 
"electronic-commerce".

In non banking circles, people don't think like that (obviously). So 
there's often a mismatch taking stuff designed for bankers and financial 
institutions out to the "other" world.

So you are absolutely right.

btw, UBL is primarily a transaction based system. It's therefore in the 
"wrong" language for SMB business people to understand or grasp what it 
is and how it could be useful (imho). (Based on the above).

> Even the more basic need of just getting a PO or
> invoice document in or out is a challenge. And even where it's possible,
> it's going to be in whatever legacy format they happen to support, not
> any "preferred standard" document. So given this environment today, the
> exchange of standardized B2B messages from peer-to-peer adds relatively
> little value, to the extent it ignores the more important job of
> actually integrating those messages with the existing systems.
>   
Yes, and those processes often include checking each document as it is 
entered.

> Despite our similarities, David and I have different business approaches
> that affect what customers do and don't end up paying for.
>   
Not only that but we're in different countries. So that affects what 
people are prepared to pay for also.

Being based in Silicon Valley is a whole lot better than a lot of other 
places that I could name for earning a living from software and 
services. I'm not complaining about my own situation or implying that 
you have it easy, just saying that being in the worlds richest country 
does have some advantages and it will impact on the respective 
product/service designs.

Following the money trial, and the stated revenue published on their 
web-site, one can only assume that http://www.xenos.com/ and ebxml are 
doing very well indeed. Let's hope they continue to grow and do well.

It doesn't seem like an easy marketplace to really be in. The thing that 
I find difficult is the restriction that financial people place on doing 
things in "transactions". When, as you point out, SMB people don't think 
like that.

But on the positive side, maybe the future for UBL lies more on the side 
of transformations. Using xslt to transform the pretty much useless xml 
data into something a bit more meaningful to the SMB.

I think that's where Xenox are going with their business judging from 
their website. It seems like it is working quite well for both them and 
their customers as far as I can see.

Regards

David