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Subject: RE: [ubl-dev] Codelist translations query


Hi David

Thanks. This is the sort of thing I was after.

An example of the problem, for want of a better one,
could be my XForms which are by default standalone 
but could be adapted to receive supplementary data 
fed to them from a server (such as translated labels
and maybe codelist translations).

If I were translating the labels I'd want to put them
in a separate file and reference their values from
the xforms:label elements of the XForms. I don't do
this in my own XForms since it was easier just to create
a separate form for each language (took about 3 hours
for 9 forms when armed with a draft UBL translation),
but that's not so relevant.

With codelists there is no UBL translation of values
in the UBL IDD (International Data Dictionary - done
for UBL 1.0 and in progress for 2.0) so I haven't yet
attempted a translation. However, given time and
someone's effort (I'm told ISO and CEFACT codelists
have translations available, by the way, which I'd
have to go look for I guess), I'd not want XForms
users to have to use english code values when using
a spanish, italian or japanese XForm, say. So they'd
need to see the translated value while the english
one might have to be the one entered into the xml.

Now I don't see much feasibility in overloading the form
with having to do lookups and having to hold all the
code values and translations so I'd expect to have to
involve some server-side stuff (which limits use of the
XForm to online use but there we go...). So there is
some scope for minimal complexity and fairly decent 
performance which would be a bit of compensation if
you can't always go online - at least you'd not have
to use english even if you do have to wait for internet
connection. Ideally I'd prefer standalone but the end
user might prefer the better translation to offline
support. Well, sorry, I'm rambling.

There's the example. Plus the xml gets sent to an ERP,
say which needs to translate the english code value into
the required language too - another scenario.

Maybe UBL would consider what to say about using
translations of the actual code values in the actual
messages but I take it the would be expected to be english
like the markup (as if the code values were an extension
of the actual markup?). 

Maybe UBL would think about providing translations of
the actual codelists too.

All the best

Steve 


------------------------------------------------------------
Stephen Green

Senior IT Officer
Bristol City Council
Room G34, Romney House
Romney Avenue
Bristol  BS99 3HB
Tel: 0117 922 3794
Fax: 0117 922 4877
Email: stephen_green@bristol.gov.uk 



>>> "David RR Webber (XML)" <david@drrw.info> 24/05/07 13:54 >>>
Steve,
 
I'm perceiving two areas here - one is the need to provide reference semantics of codelists - which genericode is doing.  The second is runtime use of codelists - which genericode facilitates - but then you really need to look at the specifics of the operational use to determine the best course.
 
Obviously with a simple xslt you can generate a CAM lookup codelist from genericode (that xslt is available for download).  CAM supports up to 3 parameters - so you can certainly cross reference between original code values and alternate ones.  The most obvious is ISO country codes in numerics and equivalent in postal letter codes.
 
Is that the kind of thing you are looking for here?  I guess if you had two genericode lists - in different languages - you could also do a lookup into a lookup, (positionally if needed) - to obtain the equivalent translations too.
 
I'm not sure we need anything special in genericode to facilitate all this - it appears to be doing the job it was designed for.  Then implementers need to massage that content into production configurations - and that of course is what XML formatting is designed to facilitate in the first instance.
 
Perhaps if you had specific example to work through?
 
Thanks, DW

"The way to be is to do" - Confucius (551-472 B.C.)



 -------- Original Message --------
Subject: [ubl-dev] Codelist translations query
From: "Stephen Green" <stephen.green@bristol.gov.uk>
Date: Thu, May 24, 2007 7:05 am
To: "<UBL DEV-LIST" <ubl-dev@lists.oasis-open.org>

Greetings,
 
 Glad to see the codelist methodology of the TC for codelists
 going to public review. The version of 'genericode' in UBL
 2.0 being an earlier version though I wondered how that
 affects UBL. In particular, how best to use the latter when
 there is a requirement to provide translated code values.
 I guess the requirement would be to re-represent the
 puiblished UBL codelist(s) in such a way that allows a look-up
 where the code value meanings and/or the values themselves
 have been translated. I guess you can translate the code
 into CAM format too (or instead, depending on constraints
 perhaps) so how to do that in a scenario of translation
 between (human) languages would be valued too (David? :-)
 (and for those OASIS members out there an unbiased plug
 here to remember the CAM 1.1 standardisation vote by the
 way).
 
 Any ideas? (especially from anyone on the codelists TC or
 those concerned with the use of the codelist output in UBL).
 
 Many thanks
 
 All the best
 
 Steve
 
 
 ------------------------------------------------------------
 Stephen Green
 
 Senior IT Officer
 Bristol City Council
 Room G34, Romney House
 Romney Avenue
 Bristol BS99 3HB
 Tel: 0117 922 3794
 Fax: 0117 922 4877
 Email: stephen_green@bristol.gov.uk 
 
 
 
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