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Subject: RE: [ubl-dev] Codelist translations query
Hi David Thanks. This is the sort of thing I was after. An example of the problem, for want of a better one, could be my XForms which are by default standalone but could be adapted to receive supplementary data fed to them from a server (such as translated labels and maybe codelist translations). If I were translating the labels I'd want to put them in a separate file and reference their values from the xforms:label elements of the XForms. I don't do this in my own XForms since it was easier just to create a separate form for each language (took about 3 hours for 9 forms when armed with a draft UBL translation), but that's not so relevant. With codelists there is no UBL translation of values in the UBL IDD (International Data Dictionary - done for UBL 1.0 and in progress for 2.0) so I haven't yet attempted a translation. However, given time and someone's effort (I'm told ISO and CEFACT codelists have translations available, by the way, which I'd have to go look for I guess), I'd not want XForms users to have to use english code values when using a spanish, italian or japanese XForm, say. So they'd need to see the translated value while the english one might have to be the one entered into the xml. Now I don't see much feasibility in overloading the form with having to do lookups and having to hold all the code values and translations so I'd expect to have to involve some server-side stuff (which limits use of the XForm to online use but there we go...). So there is some scope for minimal complexity and fairly decent performance which would be a bit of compensation if you can't always go online - at least you'd not have to use english even if you do have to wait for internet connection. Ideally I'd prefer standalone but the end user might prefer the better translation to offline support. Well, sorry, I'm rambling. There's the example. Plus the xml gets sent to an ERP, say which needs to translate the english code value into the required language too - another scenario. Maybe UBL would consider what to say about using translations of the actual code values in the actual messages but I take it the would be expected to be english like the markup (as if the code values were an extension of the actual markup?). Maybe UBL would think about providing translations of the actual codelists too. All the best Steve ------------------------------------------------------------ Stephen Green Senior IT Officer Bristol City Council Room G34, Romney House Romney Avenue Bristol BS99 3HB Tel: 0117 922 3794 Fax: 0117 922 4877 Email: stephen_green@bristol.gov.uk >>> "David RR Webber (XML)" <david@drrw.info> 24/05/07 13:54 >>> Steve, I'm perceiving two areas here - one is the need to provide reference semantics of codelists - which genericode is doing. The second is runtime use of codelists - which genericode facilitates - but then you really need to look at the specifics of the operational use to determine the best course. Obviously with a simple xslt you can generate a CAM lookup codelist from genericode (that xslt is available for download). CAM supports up to 3 parameters - so you can certainly cross reference between original code values and alternate ones. The most obvious is ISO country codes in numerics and equivalent in postal letter codes. Is that the kind of thing you are looking for here? I guess if you had two genericode lists - in different languages - you could also do a lookup into a lookup, (positionally if needed) - to obtain the equivalent translations too. I'm not sure we need anything special in genericode to facilitate all this - it appears to be doing the job it was designed for. Then implementers need to massage that content into production configurations - and that of course is what XML formatting is designed to facilitate in the first instance. Perhaps if you had specific example to work through? Thanks, DW "The way to be is to do" - Confucius (551-472 B.C.) -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [ubl-dev] Codelist translations query From: "Stephen Green" <stephen.green@bristol.gov.uk> Date: Thu, May 24, 2007 7:05 am To: "<UBL DEV-LIST" <ubl-dev@lists.oasis-open.org> Greetings, Glad to see the codelist methodology of the TC for codelists going to public review. The version of 'genericode' in UBL 2.0 being an earlier version though I wondered how that affects UBL. In particular, how best to use the latter when there is a requirement to provide translated code values. I guess the requirement would be to re-represent the puiblished UBL codelist(s) in such a way that allows a look-up where the code value meanings and/or the values themselves have been translated. I guess you can translate the code into CAM format too (or instead, depending on constraints perhaps) so how to do that in a scenario of translation between (human) languages would be valued too (David? :-) (and for those OASIS members out there an unbiased plug here to remember the CAM 1.1 standardisation vote by the way). Any ideas? (especially from anyone on the codelists TC or those concerned with the use of the codelist output in UBL). Many thanks All the best Steve ------------------------------------------------------------ Stephen Green Senior IT Officer Bristol City Council Room G34, Romney House Romney Avenue Bristol BS99 3HB Tel: 0117 922 3794 Fax: 0117 922 4877 Email: stephen_green@bristol.gov.uk ______________________________________________________________________ Please note the new simpler name for our website: http://www.bristol.gov.uk Our email addresses have also changed - visit http://www.bristol.gov.uk/bigchange for further details. 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