Re: [ubl-dev] UBL Adoption Group?

["Stephen Green" <stephen.green@bristol.gov.uk>]

Good morning Roberto

Interesting point. What, then, about standards or test assertions
related to the 'controller'? I guess this gets to the point in an 
interesting way: UBL was mostly about standardising the 'model'
if you think of things as MVC. But was it really? UBL is by name:

1. universal - it is not just for Europe
2. for business - it has to provide what is needed to conduct business (universally)
3. a language - it has to make sense equally not just to the sender ('speaker') but to the receiver too
(and they are likely to be on different continents - why else would they be interested in UBL) 

For this to all be so it has to include more than just model.

Sure, it includes a model and provides a model to a document

But the document it the focus (for conducting business B2B) and not the
application which uses it. So as a document it is more than data and structure,
it is logic and function too. These aspects have to work and they have to work
universally.

Interesting discussion. To me this what I'm trying in SystML to further and follow
through but a key part of that (as other early adopting * customers * of UBL 
tended to agree) is identification of a 'core', due to the size and complexity which
has been for some a real barrier. Once that core is identified, and what I'm getting
from yourself, Roberto, is that the core is not just model but controller too (and 
Ken would add 'view too' from the perspective of writing human interface stylesheets),
then there are further steps to take, which is what I get from Tim's comments.
In SystML I'd like to ensure that the core is identified without losing the 'universal'
aspect of UBL - not allwoing it to be just a core for a 'european business language'
which would negate its true distinctive value. So catering for S.American, N.American,
Middle Eastern, Carribean, South East Asian, ...  global requirements is what UBL set
out to do and I think the time has come to make moves to fulfill that goal; perhaps 
applying relevant aspects of lessons learned in Europe and Asia, yes. 

A way other standards-related efforts have well-proven for this purpose is through
globally scoped profiling efforts - first identify a core then provide profiles for more
specific things (in this case localisation and vertical customisation). The SBS was an
initial effort for UBL 1.0. Maybe it will do the core identification for 2.0. I'm just thinking
about there being an umbrella now for this like was originally strongly suggested for
the SBS - some said create another TC for it or Adoption TC. That was too expensive
then. Plus now there is the option of a Member Section which seems most relevant.
I remember our CEO even asked for us to do it back then. Maybe now is the time.

Many thanks for weedling this out of me.

All the best

Steve 


------------------------------------------------------------
Stephen Green

Senior IT Officer
Bristol City Council
Room G34, Romney House
Romney Avenue
Bristol  BS99 3HB
Tel: 0117 922 3794
Fax: 0117 922 4877
Email: stephen_green@bristol.gov.uk 



>>> <roberto@javest.com> 25/05/07 06:50 >>>
...
> conflicting concepts of minor aspects of the various subsets. There could,
> for instance, be some subsets which disallow non-subset data and others
> which
> tolerate it with some qualifications (like the 'must understand' versus
> 'can ignore' principles). These approaches haven't been aligned so there
> are chances for conflicting systems which could probably be avoided with a
> seeking of a common understanding and formalised approach.

Mmm... as a developer I think such tolerance is not the task of UBL in a
MVC paradigm, as the "Controller" should take care of this.
The reason is an XML based system MUST NOT ignore validations expecially
the 1st structural/lexical step (XSD) otherwise we return back to HTML.

A tolerant system should use a filter befor validate (as proposed by KH)
or just block the incoming instance and let the user to design a specific
mapping to import it (an EDI practise).

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