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Subject: RE: [Fwd: Re: [ubl-dev] UBL Adoption Group?]


Roberto / David,

You have two relatively codefree ways of doing this using jCAM.

1) OrionSMG ebMS already has jCAM integrated for validating payloads via
ebXML envelope

2) Hosting jCAM as a web service - it already has all the call
mechanisms to do this - all you need to do is 
   load the jCAM jar file out on to a web hosting service.  A sample
shell script to run jCAM is available.

DW

"The way to be is to do" - Confucius (551-472 B.C.)
 

 -------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [ubl-dev] UBL Adoption Group?]
From: David Lyon <david.lyon@preisshare.net>
Date: Sun, May 27, 2007 8:58 pm
To: roberto@javest.com
Cc: david@drrw.info,   ubl-dev@lists.oasis-open.org

Yeah, that's a brilliant idea roberto....
 
 I would be interested in co-working with you on this.
 
 As I can make space on my open-source project for it.
 
 Of course, some technology does need to be used.
 
 My preference is perl or python, because they are fairly modern, and 
 require few lines to accomplish anything. Also they run well on any 
 platform.
 
 
 
 roberto@javest.com wrote:
 > Hello David,
 > the idea I described is a little different.
 >
 > I am not talking about a specific technology, API or engine to use
 with UBL.
 >
 > I supposed there should be such a public service exposed using WS
 and/or
 > ebXML to let anyone "test" online its UBL
 environment/system/application
 > with certified xml instances based on a set of downloadable
 customized XSD
 > schemas representing all the main use case of UBL
 > subsetting/profiling/derivation/extension.
 >
 > Something like this:
 >
 > Test Environment Public WebSite
 > |
 > +----- Downloadable Subset Sample (XSD bundle)
 > +----- Downloadable Profiled Subset Sample (XSD bundle)
 > +----- Downloadable XSD Derivation Customization Sample (XSD bundle)
 > +----- Downloadable UBL Extensions Customization Sample (XSD bundle)
 > |
 > +----- Web Service / ebXML to receive an UBL instance based on each
 of the
 > previous customization cases.
 >
 > Vendor Software
 > |
 > +----- Setup a WS or ebXML environment
 > +----- Setup their UBL solution using a customization test (XSD
bundle)
 > +----- Receive an UBL instance from the public test environment
 > +----- Send back an ApplicationResponse with results
 >
 > or a better conformancy test could be:
 >
 > - Receive a Quotation
 > - Send back an Order with all items available into the Quotation
 >
 > The Vendor is not constrained to use JCam or another specific
 technology,
 > this is just an UBL Conformance Test (like the validation services
 > available at the W3C website).
 >
 > Of course this could be made in a simpler way by sending just an
e-mail
 > with an UBL attachment...
 >
 > Maybe such conformancy test public service could be made together the
 > ebXML TC.
 >
 > It is just a brain storming...
 >
 > Have a nice week-end David.
 >
 > Best Regards,
 >
 > Roberto Cisternino
 > co-chair
 > UBL ITLSC
 >
 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
 >
 > Roberto,
 >
 > What you are suggesting here is entirely enabled with the CAM
 > specification and jCAM engine.
 >
 > <snip>Then if a software, driver, engine, ... will be able to pass
all
 > published interop tests, it could be elegible to show an "UBL
 Conformant"
 > Logo on
 > their software as quality symbol.
 > </snip>
 >
 > I'm not sure about this "UBL Inside" logo though - probably take you
 more
 > time to decide on the design and artwork and have that approved than
to
 > write the CAM templates for the software.
 >
 > ; -)
 >
 > DW
 >
 > "The way to be is to do" - Confucius (551-472 B.C.)
 >
 >
 > ---------------------------- Original Message
 ----------------------------
 > Subject: Re: [ubl-dev] UBL Adoption Group?
 > From: roberto@javest.com
 > Date: Fri, May 25, 2007 10:47 am
 > To: "Stephen Green" <stephen.green@bristol.gov.uk>
 >
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
 >
 > Hi Stephen,
 >
 > I see, you are right UBL is really more than EDI, this is because
 of XML
 > family of standards used (e.g. an XSLT definition is a piece of a
 > controller)
 >
 > The logic to accept or skip an incoming message could be located into
 > many places:
 >
 > 1) Expressed using XML (like schematron or as a result of a
 pipeline of
 > validations).
 > 2) hard coded client-side using Javascript
 > 3) hard coded server-side using JSP/Servlet/PHP/ASP
 >
 > Whatever a software house will choose the "right" way or not, I
 think an
 > interoperability test could be as simple as providing a set of UBL
 > instances and XSDs that sufficiently cover the main set of
 customization
 > use cases (subsetting, profiling, derivation, extensions) for the
 purpose
 > of a "public" interop test (available as WS or ebXML service).
 >
 > Then if a software, driver, engine, ... will be able to pass all
 > published interop tests, it could be elegible to show an "UBL
 Conformant"
 > Logo on
 > their software as quality symbol.
 >
 > I put some fantasy here, but I think is not a so bad idea, what you
 think
 > about ?
 >
 > Regards,
 >
 > Roberto Cisternino
 >
 > > Good morning Roberto
 > >
 > > Interesting point. What, then, about standards or test assertions
 > related to the 'controller'? I guess this gets to the point in an
 > interesting way: UBL was mostly about standardising the 'model'
 > > if you think of things as MVC. But was it really? UBL is by name:
 > >
 > > 1. universal - it is not just for Europe
 > > 2. for business - it has to provide what is needed to conduct
 business
 > (universally)
 > > 3. a language - it has to make sense equally not just to the sender
 > ('speaker') but to the receiver too
 > > (and they are likely to be on different continents - why else would
 > they
 > be interested in UBL)
 > >
 > > For this to all be so it has to include more than just model.
 > >
 > > Sure, it includes a model and provides a model to a document
 > >
 > > But the document it the focus (for conducting business B2B) and
 not the
 > application which uses it. So as a document it is more than data and
 > structure,
 > > it is logic and function too. These aspects have to work and they
 have
 > to work
 > > universally.
 > >
 > > Interesting discussion. To me this what I'm trying in SystML to
 further
 > and follow
 > > through but a key part of that (as other early adopting * customers
 > * of
 > UBL
 > > tended to agree) is identification of a 'core', due to the size and
 > complexity which
 > > has been for some a real barrier. Once that core is identified, and
 > what
 > I'm getting
 > > from yourself, Roberto, is that the core is not just model but
 > controller too (and
 > > Ken would add 'view too' from the perspective of writing human
 > interface
 > stylesheets),
 > > then there are further steps to take, which is what I get from
Tim's
 > comments.
 > > In SystML I'd like to ensure that the core is identified without
 losing
 > the 'universal'
 > > aspect of UBL - not allwoing it to be just a core for a 'european
 > business language'
 > > which would negate its true distinctive value. So catering for
 > S.American, N.American,
 > > Middle Eastern, Carribean, South East Asian, ... global
 > requirements is
 > what UBL set
 > > out to do and I think the time has come to make moves to fulfill
 that
 > goal; perhaps
 > > applying relevant aspects of lessons learned in Europe and Asia,
 yes.
 > >
 > > A way other standards-related efforts have well-proven for this
 purpose
 > is through
 > > globally scoped profiling efforts - first identify a core then
 provide
 > profiles for more
 > > specific things (in this case localisation and vertical
 customisation).
 > The SBS was an
 > > initial effort for UBL 1.0. Maybe it will do the core
identification
 > for
 > 2.0. I'm just thinking
 > > about there being an umbrella now for this like was originally
 strongly
 > suggested for
 > > the SBS - some said create another TC for it or Adoption TC. That
 was
 > too expensive
 > > then. Plus now there is the option of a Member Section which
 seems most
 > relevant.
 > > I remember our CEO even asked for us to do it back then. Maybe
 now is
 > the time.
 > >
 > > Many thanks for weedling this out of me.
 > >
 > > All the best
 > >
 > > Steve
 > >
 > >
 > > ------------------------------------------------------------
 > > Stephen Green
 > >
 > > Senior IT Officer
 > > Bristol City Council
 > > Room G34, Romney House
 > > Romney Avenue
 > > Bristol BS99 3HB
 > > Tel: 0117 922 3794
 > > Fax: 0117 922 4877
 > > Email: stephen_green@bristol.gov.uk
 > >
 > >
 > >
 > >>>> <roberto@javest.com> 25/05/07 06:50 >>>
 > > ...
 > >> conflicting concepts of minor aspects of the various subsets.
There
 > could,
 > >> for instance, be some subsets which disallow non-subset data and
 > others
 > which
 > >> tolerate it with some qualifications (like the 'must understand'
 > versus
 > 'can ignore' principles). These approaches haven't been aligned so
 > there are chances for conflicting systems which could probably be
 > avoided with a
 > >> seeking of a common understanding and formalised approach.
 > >
 > > Mmm... as a developer I think such tolerance is not the task of UBL
 > in a
 > MVC paradigm, as the "Controller" should take care of this.
 > > The reason is an XML based system MUST NOT ignore validations
 > expecially
 > the 1st structural/lexical step (XSD) otherwise we return back to
 HTML.
 > >
 > > A tolerant system should use a filter befor validate (as proposed
by
 > KH)
 > or just block the incoming instance and let the user to design a
 > specific mapping to import it (an EDI practise).
 > >
 > >
______________________________________________________________________
 > Please note the new simpler name for our website:
 > > http://www.bristol.gov.uk
 > >
 > > Our email addresses have also changed - visit
 > > http://www.bristol.gov.uk/bigchange for further details.
 > >
 > > Sign-up for our email bulletin giving news, have-your-say and event
 > information at: http://www.bristol.gov.uk/newsdirect
 > >
 > >
 > >
 > >
 > >
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 > >
 > >
 >
 >
 > Roberto Cisternino
 >
 >
 >
 > Roberto Cisternino
 >
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 >
 >
 >
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