Re: [ubl-dev] Basic Invoice Exploration

["G. Ken Holman" <gkholman@CraneSoftwrights.com>]

Forgive me, Steve, for drawing this out but I've got my UBL Human 
Interface Subcommittee (HISC) hat on today.

Since April 2006 in the HISC we've been talking about documenting 
sample calculation models for UBL:

   http://markmail.org/message/7yzrxwp7ttwleyn6

I'm finally talking with a chartered accountant in Canada regarding a 
calculation model for invoices in Ontario Canada (our provincial 
jurisdiction).  It would be an HISC example of a model where VAT is 
not included in prices.

The Danish have documented a calculation model where VAT is included in prices:

   http://www.oioubl.info/guidelines/en/OIOUBL_GUIDE_TOTALS.pdf

I would like to transcribe the essentials of that into an HISC 
document of an example model where VAT is included in prices.

Your comments to jaymuz would be helpful to consider when writing this.

Where I'll get the time I don't know, but for three years now we 
haven't had any volunteers join up in HISC and write these up.

At 2009-06-18 11:58 +0100, Stephen Green wrote:
>My knowledge is a bit rusty (I've been out of finance work
>for a year or so now) but I think the LineExtensionAmount
>is the amount without VAT.

LineExtensionAmount is in the InvoiceLine ... so even if the sticker 
price includes VAT, the InvoiceLine LineExtensionAmount is still the 
price without VAT?

LineExtensionAmount is also in the MonetaryTotal ... where it states 
it is the total of line extension amounts net of tax.  Being a 
programmer and not a businessman, I looked up the term "net of tax" and found:

   http://www.answers.com/topic/net-of-tax

Which implies to me that "net of tax" *includes* all tax.

Taken together would imply a contradiction to me that 
LineExtensionAmount in the InvoiceLine is without tax yet 
LineExtensionAmount in the MonetaryTotal is with tax.

Where is a layman like me getting confused?

>The VAT is calculated (in my
>country at least - UK) on the total including allowances
>and charges (except those made dependant on payment
>terms like charges for late payment which do not affect
>the VAT calculation).

Is the VAT then calculated on the individual invoice lines and the 
total included in the monetary total?

>Also in UK I think it is still true that
>the VAT cannot be altered once it is declared on an
>invoice so there are some things the LineExtensionAmount
>has to include and some things it doesn't. Anyway, AFAIK,
>it is the basis for VAT calculation so it doesn't itself
>include the VAT.

Which LineExtensionAmount?  Both?

>All this is general accounting knowledge

(by those who know accounting)

>so doesn't get dicated by the language (UBL in this case)
>and does have to comply with whatever VAT rules apply
>to your invoice. I do accept that concepts like LineExtension
>have been floded into UBL and need a UBL explanation for
>what they entail - which I guess is at present just in the
>official UBL semantic definition (a bit sparce - could maybe
>be extended to include a general conceptual calculation
>model, albeit one which might have to be a default which
>gets overridden by local customs and rules).

Hopefully with HISC publishing a couple of examples, then users in 
different jurisdictions will identify what has to be identified where they are.

Thanks, Steve, for all your input!

. . . . . . . . . Ken

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