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Subject: Re: [ubl-dev] UBL Credit Note vs. UBL Negative Invoice


Looking around online now it does appear there is evidence of credit notes including line details similar to invoice lines. If this is required then I agree that a negated invoice document could be used, although I think it would be better to add a construct to allow the existing credit note to include a set of individual invoice lines, each group within a container relating to just one invoice.

There was very little peer review of the UBL credit note.

On Sun, 4 Oct 2020 at 16:29, Stephen D Green <stephengreenubl@gmail.com> wrote:
Credit Note: âÂIt is a lot different from invoice:
as far as I can tell it is structurally more like
a remittance than an invoice since it refers
not to goods, deliveries, payments, etc
but to references to other documents (invoices
remittances and statements, say). This can
be eitherÂto document level or line level of
the referenced document.â

On Sun, 4 Oct 2020 at 14:17, Stephen D Green <stephengreenubl@gmail.com> wrote:
Here is my initial draft of credit note with explanationsÂ


On Sun, 4 Oct 2020 at 12:23, Stephen D Green <stephengreenubl@gmail.com> wrote:
I found this historic email link which has some of the discussion leading to the inclusion of the CreditNote.Â


On Sun, 4 Oct 2020 at 10:27, <plb@ebconnect.dk> wrote:

Hi Svante

Â

It was me together with Mark Leight, that worked as an consultant for Office of Government Commerce who forwarded the requirements for invoices back in 2006 where we build UBL 2.0.

I worked for the Danish National IT and Telecom Agency and was given the task to make a more international and proper implementation of the standard used in Denmark. The documents we added was based on a analyse from OGC. For the billing process we included

Â

Invoice (was already there)

CreditNote

DebitNote

Selfbilled invoice

Selfbilled credit note

Â

There are different busines rules applied for the different documents, and it would be a lot easier to make a accurate implementation by using the right document to start with. However it turned out that the UBL billing model were too complex for most backend system, and in some implementation preferred just to use the invoice for all purposes. During the TC434 implementation (which I was not a part of) I am quite sure that the official Danish view have been not to allow negative totals on any of these documents and instead flip the document type.

Â

Having type codes on documents or a broader usage of documents vs many implementation of documents is a constant debate in UBL. We see this in the Order vs the Order Response and the Order Change and in a Catalogues process. I think the official UBL opinion is to leave it up the implementors, those who defines the subset for UBL.

Â

I hope this enlightened you with some of the background for this. Otherwise you are welcome to come back to me with more questions.

Â

Best regards

Â

Peter L. Borresen

Â

Fra: Svante Schubert <svante.schubert@gmail.com>
Sendt: 1. oktober 2020 16:35
Til: ubl-dev@lists.oasis-open.org
Emne: [ubl-dev] UBL Credit Note vs. UBL Negative Invoice

Â

Dear developers,

Â

I am new to the list, since decades working on ODF, but since a few years as well on EU e-procurement.

Recently I became an editor of CEN TC 434 (EU eInvoice standard) working group 1, which isÂfocusing on the e-invoice semantics.

Â

We discussed this week the usage of a UBL invoice with a negative amount, which is used inÂNetherland and Denmark. ThisÂnegative invoice is equal toÂa Credit Note.

On the other hand, the CEN TC 434 decided last Wednesday not to allow a negative Credit Note (which would be similar to an invoice).

Now someone mentioned, that there might be still lines within a Credit Note with a negative amount as long the total is not negative.Â

To be honest, I am getting kind of confused. ;-)

Â

Although I was in the beginning surprised by the idea of using a negative invoice as a Credit Note, I do like this way as an easy implementation without additional "XML boilerplate".Â

Could you provide me please with some background/references of the reason to create a set of XML for Credit Note instead of allowing negative invoices?

I might even give the likelyÂheretical suggestion to drop the complexityÂof additional XML for a Credit Note in favour of using negative amount invoices to lower the complexity of the system.

Â

What do you think?

Svante

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Stephen D Green


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Stephen D Green


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Stephen D Green


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Stephen D Green


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