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Subject: [lcsc] LCSC minutes, 23 September 2003



UBL Library Content subcommittee met by telephone on Tuesday 16 September at 16:00 GMT.

U.S. domestic toll-free number: (866)839-8145
Int. access/caller paid number: (865)524-6352
Access code: 5705229

Agenda:

1. Welcome from Chair and appointment of Secretary to take minutes.
2. Action Items (see below)
3. Review of Models (alpha draft-4 and 5)
   - Indicators/Codes
   - GUID
   - Identification - >Identifier
   - referential integrity of ABIEs
   - TaxAmount(s)
   - 'flatness'
4. Code Sets implementation review
   - names, namespaces and prefixes
   - code list catalogue and types
   - populating code set values
5. Schedule for 1.00 Committee Spec
   - models for 1.00 alpha  (incorporating code sets)
   - schemas for 1.00 alpha  (incorporating CCTypes)
   - contents of package for QA
6. Schema Generation issues
   - NDR rule R90
   A RootSchema in one UBL namespace that is dependant upon type definitions
   or element declarations defined in another namespace MUST NOT import
   schema modules from that namespace.
   - Representation terms (secondary and qualifiers)
7. Documentation
   - Comments on draft
     (http://ubl.cim3.org/~lcsc/lcsc-distribution-v1-0_alpha/UBLv1-alpha/UBLv1.1-alpha-index_css.html)
8. Next Steps
9. Tools and Techniques - Chi-Kai
   - Schema generation
10. QA team report
    - Documentation
    - Filenaming
11. NDR Rules update - Lisa
12. Other Business
13. Next meeting 


Agenda:

1. Welcome from Co-Chairs (Tim and Mark) and appointment of Secretary to take minutes.
        LCSC Members:

            Sally Chan                          -
            Chin Chee-Kai                       Y
            Tony Coates                         Y
            Jay Gager                           Y
            Stephen Green                       Y
            Arofan Gregory                      -
            Anne Hendry                         Y
            Stig Korsgaard                      -
            Monica Martin                       -
            Tim McGrath (Chair)                 Y
            Bill Meadows                        -
            Sue Probert                         Y
            Deborah Quezadaz                    Y
            Marion Royal (Vice Chair)           Y
            Terry Schager                       -
            Lisa Seaburg                        Y
            Ray Seddigh                         -
            Michael Seubert                     -
            Alan Stitzer                        -
            Gunther Stuhec                      -
            Nigel Wooden                        -
            Peter Yim                           -

        Observers:

            Ken Holman                          Y

   Anne will take minutes.

2. Action Items

   20030909-01: Lisa take RosettaNet comments to NDR.
                - Sue forward to Lisa; Lisa take to NDR
   20030909-02: Everyone to review the models Tim sends and respond to QA by Friday.
                - coming up
   20030909-03: Stephen work on prefixes and normalizing namespaces for URI generation.
                - done
   20030909-04: Anne finalize/update Code List Catalogue column names and descriptions.
                - done
   20030909-05: Stephen and Chee-Kai work on models -> schema generation.
                - done
   20030909-06: Tim determine if LC needs any naming rules for code list generation.
                - done
                - have gone through debate on namespaces and what we call them;
                  still need discussion on this when we talk about codesets.
   20030909-06: Tim ask NDR/Gunther about use of attributes vs. elements for CCT DTs.
                - done
                - agreed that way is structured is way it should be               
   20030916-01: Tim and Stephen pull out indicators and decide how to represent them.
                - done
                - will dicuss during review
   20030916-02: Stephen send codelist catalogue and models to chee-kai.
                - done
   20030916-03: Anne confer with Ken; update catalogue with discussed changes;
                send to Stephen.
                - done
   20030916-04: Tim send model spreadsheet to Chee-Kai, adding 'draft1' to the
                filename.  This will be the first pass at populating the prefixes.
                - done
   20030916-05: Chee-kai continue to work on current version schemas
                - done
   20030916-06: Chee-Kai create informational document on his SoftML tool(s)
                which could be included in the UBL package.

3. Review of Models (alpha draft-4 and 5)
   - Indicators/Codes
   - GUID
   - Identification - >Identifier
   - referential integrity of ABIEs
   - TaxAmount(s)
   - 'flatness'

   Changes in draft 5 (Stephen):

	- a few ids that needed to become codes
        - payment meant type code id was an identifier and should be a code;
          then we need some values, at least 'stock'; Sue: there's an EDIFACT
          code for this (4465?).
        - what we have now is fairly robust
        - still need quite a few values for code lists, so took examples
          and filled those in.
        - changes were made particularly to status code because invoice and
          order shouldn't have had certain values available, so status code
          has been split into indicator for copy which would be on every
          document (copy indicator) and other values which were a different
          category of status (eg. whether it's been chaned or not, etc).
        - had to change guid formula in spreadsheet; still an issue on
          a) representation terms,
          b) columns which are not needed/used and their forumlas;
          These areinterrelated issues triggered by what seeemd like a
          trivial change, but is an opoorutnity to simplify.  It all
          started from discussion about the use of representation term
          or datatype.

          Sue: from TBG 17 work in CEFACT, there is a big query on the
          submission from UBL becuase it doesn't have datattypes.
          Tim: We do have a column called datatypes, but it's just a
          synonym.  The impact of this only just occurred in last few days.
          We had alawys assumed that datatype was the thing we would use
          to create datatypes in the xsd.  Our componenttypes.xsd
          datatype, as in XML datatypes (name, datatyte, identifier,
          code) and thought they were these, but in listening to Mark
          and thinking about CCTS again, it seems that TBG or CC people
          see datatypes as sometehing different.  Sue: the concept is
          of a syntax neutral datatype.  Not linked with syntax, but
          linked with representation terms and naming conventions.
          Linked in naming in the sense of a D.E.N.

          Tim: anythng that effects ubl naming rules (UBL tagnames)
          is a timing issue because it impacts everything doewn the line:
          schemas, formatting, etc.  Each time we do this our semantic
          names come up differently.  We may hve to delay this until
          the implementation review period.  If we have a response
          by Friday we havea potential to react.  After Friday it's
          too late.

          Sue: I think we should eal with this thoroughly in SF.
          It all boils down to how compliant with CCTS we want to be.

          ACTION: Sue make a recommendation on the CCTS datatype naming
          rules and use of datatypes.

          ACTION: Tim allocate a session on CCTS datatypes priori to F2F.

   Naming:

     Chee-Kai: Right now it seems that the assumption is that the UBL name
     is just for show but it could be a better idea to rely on a spreadsheet
     formula for it because then we wouldn't have to wait for the schema
     to come back to see if name is correct.

     Tim: There is an obvious attraction to only having naming rules
     applied once.

     Stephen: Yes, perhaps one reason - with the codes we can't have duplicate
     names (can't ahve 2 codes with the same name even though we're using
     namespace and prefixes).  I think the tool is the only place that can
     be done (not in ss) but maybe that is only because we have no rules -
     a special case for code list - can't have 2 bbie enumerated codes
     having the same values (eg. type code or currency code).

     No agreement yet for this.


   - Indicators/Codes

     Problems with reuse  care always needed in naming  shouldn't be vague
     with names or problems are caused with reuse  this especially applies
     to codes since wherever a code (or any entity) is reused it has to have
     the same features. The parent name cannot be relied upon as a qualifier.
     Status and Type are vague names and had needed extra qualifiers. It was
     not clear in the model the difference between 'Adjective' and 'Noun'
     Property Term.

     ACTION: Tim will go through the models and check all 'adjective'
     and 'noun' column entries for consistency and integrity.

   - Identification - >Identifier

     Sue pointed out that the CCTS required that we keep the use of
     Identification and Identifier as property terms
     (Identification.Identifier becomes Identification)

   - referential integrity of ABIEs

     Fixed.

   - TaxAmount(s)

     After discussion it was decided that 'TaxAmounts' was OK as a
     plural name and should be kept, but subsequently Tim pointed out
     that the ABIE was redundant due to the 1..1 cardinality and so it
     could be dropped altogether, which he did in the draft 6 model.

   - 'flatness'
     Lisa still felt that 40-odd BBIEs at the top of the Order Schema
     required a container, being too 'flat' and giving a subjective
     feeling of not being 'nice', particularly when considering the
     needs of those mapping UBL to other standards. The container
     discussion was reluctantly reopened for a while but without any
     resolution. Tim proposed that it be set aside until the
     post-implementation review. Lisa: a lot of the original backers
     of the container rule had since left NDRSC.


4. Code set implementation review

   - names, namespaces and prefixes

     Only the UBL name was needed (ather than the complete Dictionary
     Entry Name) in the namespace since the former is now unique to
     each codelist (having been edited to this effect by SG).

     ACTION: SG will edit the codelist namespaces to shorten them to
     include the UBL name rather than the complete Dictionary Entry Name.

   - populating code set values

     There had been news that ISO would be charging for development use
     and distribution of their codelists

     ACTION: Sue will e-mail UNECE to ask for official wording
     regarding any rights to distribute the joint ISO/UNECE codelists

     ACTION: Ken will go through the release Index and add a section
     about use of his stylesheet to bring external codelist enumerated
     lists into UBL format codelist schemas. He will include the
     stylesheet in the distribution by adding it to a new folder called
     code', to which the his Index annex will point.

     ACTION: Sue, in liaison with SG, will try to populate the catlogue
     with code values, taken as far as possible from existing values in
     UNECE codelists which are freely available to us (not the entire
     lists  just as many of the values as we need and with the proviso
     that we needn't keep just to existing external values if we wish
     to add new ones). Narrative comments will identify the sources of
     existing values.

   - code list catalogue and types

     Tim pointed out that the existing values in the catalogue are
     prototypes and can be changed.

     ACTION: Sue will also look at the codelist catalogue to see which
     available external codelists should be used.

     ACTION: Sue will look at the catalogue to see if any improvements
     to designations Standard/Stock/Placebo can be made.

     The following points were made about adjustments to the
     definitions of Stock/Standard/Placebo and columns in the catalogue:

            - NO values provided in the catalogue will NOT be default
              (that is  included as Use schemas Out-of-the-box in UBL 1.0
              beta)

            - Placebos will be provided for ALL except Standard codelists

            - Wherever Stock is the default we MUST have values provided
              in the catalogue (CK  the tool will check for this)

5. Schedule for 1.00 Committee Spec

   - models for 1.00 alpha  (incorporating code sets)

     Completed models (draft 6) from Tim via Sue via Steve to Chee-Kai
     by Friday (for QA team)

     ACTION: SG to make PaymentMeansType CodeID into a code

     ACTION: SG to split StatusCode into DocumentStatusCode and LineStatusCode

     ACTION: CK to include 3 metadata elements in the codelist schemas
     to hold values for Qualifier, Agency and Version

     ACTION: Sue will look up proper names for the 3 elements to be
     added which need to be added to the catalogue as columns too.

     ACTION: SG will add these to the instance examples too (core
     component attributes for codes)

     Discussion took place about the problem with not being able to
     provide a mechanism out-of-the-box to validate codes which are
     attribute defined within the CCType Schema. If NDR do not allow a
     change (on the basis that the latter schema is to be common as
     agreed to both UBL and other agencies) then LCSC can do nothing
     about this.

     ACTION: all present on this call to get to the Friday QA meeting

   - schemas for 1.00 alpha  (incorporating CCTypes)
   - contents of package for QA

6. Schema Generation issues
   - NDR rule R90
     "A RootSchema in one UBL namespace that is dependant upon type
      definitions or element declarations defined in another namespace
      MUST NOT import schema modules from that namespace."

      CK: if the wording is changed then there will not be a problem

   - Representation terms (secondary and qualifiers)

      ACTION: Sue by November to find out how datatypes and qualifiers,
      etc should be used correctly (e.g. With UBL name) to keep UBL
      completely CCTS compliant.

      Tim: not likely to be achieved in 1.0 beta but for discussion in
      San Francisco at face-to-face.

7. Documentation
   - Comments on draft
     (http://ubl.cim3.org/~lcsc/lcsc-distribution-v1-0_alpha/UBLv1-alpha/UBLv1.1-alpha-index_css.html)
     ACTION: all concerned to review their own area of the above and talk about it Friday

8. Next Steps

9. Tools and Techniques - Chi-Kai
   - Schema generation

10. QA team report
    - Documentation
    - Filenaming

11. NDR Rules update - Lisa

    ACTION: Lisa to add RosettaNet review of N&D Rules to agenda of
    tomorrows NDRSC meeting and send out the same review to NDRSC.

12. Other Business

    CK: would like to add HTML renderings of the schema formats to the
    deliverable. The group would look at these and decide.

    ACTION: CK to send HTML renderings of the schemas to LCSC

13. Next meeting

    Tuesday 30th September, same time and concall info
    Please also attend this Friday's QA meeting.


Action Items
------------

20030909-01: Lisa take RosettaNet comments to NDR.
20030916-06: Chee-Kai create informational document on his SoftML tool(s)
             which could be included in the UBL package.
20030923-01: Sue find out how datatypes, qualifiers, etc should be used
             correctly (e.g. With UBL name) to keep UBL completely CCTS
             compliant.  Need by November.
20030923-02: All concerned to review their own area of the Index file
             (sent out by Lisa) and talk about it Friday
20030923-03: Lisa to add RosettaNet review of N&D Rules to agenda of
             tomorrows NDRSC meeting and send out the same review to NDRSC.
20030923-04: Chee-Kai send HTML renderings of the schemas to LCSC
20030923-05: Sue make a recommendation on the CCTS datatype naming
             rules and use of datatypes.
20030923-06: Tim allocate a session on CCTS datatypes priori to F2F.
20030923-07: Tim will go through the models and check all 'adjective'
             and 'noun' column entries for consistency and integrity.
20030923-08: SG will edit the codelist namespaces to shorten them to
             include the UBL name rather than the complete Dictionary
             Entry Name.
20030923-09: Sue will e-mail UNECE to ask for official wording
             regarding any rights to distribute the joint ISO/UNECE
             codelists.
20030923-10: Ken will go through the release Index and add a section
             about use of his stylesheet to bring external codelist
             enumerated lists into UBL format codelist schemas.
             He will include the stylesheet in the distribution
             by adding it to a new folder called code', to which
             the his Index annex will point.
20030923-11: Sue, in liaison with SG, will try to populate the catlogue
             with code values, taken as far as possible from existing
             values in UNECE codelists which are freely available to us
             (not the entire lists  just as many of the values as we
             need and with the proviso that we needn't keep just to 
             existing external values if we wish to add new ones).
             Narrative comments will identify the sources of existing values.
20030923-12: Sue will also look at the codelist catalogue to see which
             available external codelists should be used.
20030923-13: Sue will look at the catalogue to see if any improvements
             to designations Standard/Stock/Placebo can be made.
20030923-14: SG to make PaymentMeansType CodeID into a code
20030923-15: SG to split StatusCode into DocumentStatusCode and LineStatusCode
20030923-16: CK to include 3 metadata elements in the codelist schemas to
             hold values for Qualifier, Agency and Version
20030923-17: Sue will look up proper names for the 3 elements to be
             added which need to be added to the catalogue as columns too.
20030923-18: SG will add these to the instance examples too (core
             component attributes for codes)
20030923-19: all present on this call to get to the Friday QA meeting
20030923-20: Sue by November to find out how datatypes and qualifiers,
             etc should be used correctly (e.g. With UBL name) to keep
             UBL completely CCTS compliant.
20030923-21: all concerned to review their own area of the above and
             talk about it Friday
20030923-22: Lisa to add RosettaNet review of N&D Rules to agenda of
             tomorrow's NDRSC meeting and send out the same review to NDRSC.
20030923-23: CK to send HTML renderings of the schemas to LCSC


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