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Subject: [lcsc] LCSC minutes, 23 September 2003
UBL Library Content subcommittee met by telephone on Tuesday 16 September at 16:00 GMT.
U.S. domestic toll-free number: (866)839-8145
Int. access/caller paid number: (865)524-6352
Access code: 5705229
Agenda:
1. Welcome from Chair and appointment of Secretary to take minutes.
2. Action Items (see below)
3. Review of Models (alpha draft-4 and 5)
- Indicators/Codes
- GUID
- Identification - >Identifier
- referential integrity of ABIEs
- TaxAmount(s)
- 'flatness'
4. Code Sets implementation review
- names, namespaces and prefixes
- code list catalogue and types
- populating code set values
5. Schedule for 1.00 Committee Spec
- models for 1.00 alpha (incorporating code sets)
- schemas for 1.00 alpha (incorporating CCTypes)
- contents of package for QA
6. Schema Generation issues
- NDR rule R90
A RootSchema in one UBL namespace that is dependant upon type definitions
or element declarations defined in another namespace MUST NOT import
schema modules from that namespace.
- Representation terms (secondary and qualifiers)
7. Documentation
- Comments on draft
(http://ubl.cim3.org/~lcsc/lcsc-distribution-v1-0_alpha/UBLv1-alpha/UBLv1.1-alpha-index_css.html)
8. Next Steps
9. Tools and Techniques - Chi-Kai
- Schema generation
10. QA team report
- Documentation
- Filenaming
11. NDR Rules update - Lisa
12. Other Business
13. Next meeting
Agenda:
1. Welcome from Co-Chairs (Tim and Mark) and appointment of Secretary to take minutes.
LCSC Members:
Sally Chan -
Chin Chee-Kai Y
Tony Coates Y
Jay Gager Y
Stephen Green Y
Arofan Gregory -
Anne Hendry Y
Stig Korsgaard -
Monica Martin -
Tim McGrath (Chair) Y
Bill Meadows -
Sue Probert Y
Deborah Quezadaz Y
Marion Royal (Vice Chair) Y
Terry Schager -
Lisa Seaburg Y
Ray Seddigh -
Michael Seubert -
Alan Stitzer -
Gunther Stuhec -
Nigel Wooden -
Peter Yim -
Observers:
Ken Holman Y
Anne will take minutes.
2. Action Items
20030909-01: Lisa take RosettaNet comments to NDR.
- Sue forward to Lisa; Lisa take to NDR
20030909-02: Everyone to review the models Tim sends and respond to QA by Friday.
- coming up
20030909-03: Stephen work on prefixes and normalizing namespaces for URI generation.
- done
20030909-04: Anne finalize/update Code List Catalogue column names and descriptions.
- done
20030909-05: Stephen and Chee-Kai work on models -> schema generation.
- done
20030909-06: Tim determine if LC needs any naming rules for code list generation.
- done
- have gone through debate on namespaces and what we call them;
still need discussion on this when we talk about codesets.
20030909-06: Tim ask NDR/Gunther about use of attributes vs. elements for CCT DTs.
- done
- agreed that way is structured is way it should be
20030916-01: Tim and Stephen pull out indicators and decide how to represent them.
- done
- will dicuss during review
20030916-02: Stephen send codelist catalogue and models to chee-kai.
- done
20030916-03: Anne confer with Ken; update catalogue with discussed changes;
send to Stephen.
- done
20030916-04: Tim send model spreadsheet to Chee-Kai, adding 'draft1' to the
filename. This will be the first pass at populating the prefixes.
- done
20030916-05: Chee-kai continue to work on current version schemas
- done
20030916-06: Chee-Kai create informational document on his SoftML tool(s)
which could be included in the UBL package.
3. Review of Models (alpha draft-4 and 5)
- Indicators/Codes
- GUID
- Identification - >Identifier
- referential integrity of ABIEs
- TaxAmount(s)
- 'flatness'
Changes in draft 5 (Stephen):
- a few ids that needed to become codes
- payment meant type code id was an identifier and should be a code;
then we need some values, at least 'stock'; Sue: there's an EDIFACT
code for this (4465?).
- what we have now is fairly robust
- still need quite a few values for code lists, so took examples
and filled those in.
- changes were made particularly to status code because invoice and
order shouldn't have had certain values available, so status code
has been split into indicator for copy which would be on every
document (copy indicator) and other values which were a different
category of status (eg. whether it's been chaned or not, etc).
- had to change guid formula in spreadsheet; still an issue on
a) representation terms,
b) columns which are not needed/used and their forumlas;
These areinterrelated issues triggered by what seeemd like a
trivial change, but is an opoorutnity to simplify. It all
started from discussion about the use of representation term
or datatype.
Sue: from TBG 17 work in CEFACT, there is a big query on the
submission from UBL becuase it doesn't have datattypes.
Tim: We do have a column called datatypes, but it's just a
synonym. The impact of this only just occurred in last few days.
We had alawys assumed that datatype was the thing we would use
to create datatypes in the xsd. Our componenttypes.xsd
datatype, as in XML datatypes (name, datatyte, identifier,
code) and thought they were these, but in listening to Mark
and thinking about CCTS again, it seems that TBG or CC people
see datatypes as sometehing different. Sue: the concept is
of a syntax neutral datatype. Not linked with syntax, but
linked with representation terms and naming conventions.
Linked in naming in the sense of a D.E.N.
Tim: anythng that effects ubl naming rules (UBL tagnames)
is a timing issue because it impacts everything doewn the line:
schemas, formatting, etc. Each time we do this our semantic
names come up differently. We may hve to delay this until
the implementation review period. If we have a response
by Friday we havea potential to react. After Friday it's
too late.
Sue: I think we should eal with this thoroughly in SF.
It all boils down to how compliant with CCTS we want to be.
ACTION: Sue make a recommendation on the CCTS datatype naming
rules and use of datatypes.
ACTION: Tim allocate a session on CCTS datatypes priori to F2F.
Naming:
Chee-Kai: Right now it seems that the assumption is that the UBL name
is just for show but it could be a better idea to rely on a spreadsheet
formula for it because then we wouldn't have to wait for the schema
to come back to see if name is correct.
Tim: There is an obvious attraction to only having naming rules
applied once.
Stephen: Yes, perhaps one reason - with the codes we can't have duplicate
names (can't ahve 2 codes with the same name even though we're using
namespace and prefixes). I think the tool is the only place that can
be done (not in ss) but maybe that is only because we have no rules -
a special case for code list - can't have 2 bbie enumerated codes
having the same values (eg. type code or currency code).
No agreement yet for this.
- Indicators/Codes
Problems with reuse – care always needed in naming – shouldn't be vague
with names or problems are caused with reuse – this especially applies
to codes since wherever a code (or any entity) is reused it has to have
the same features. The parent name cannot be relied upon as a qualifier.
Status and Type are vague names and had needed extra qualifiers. It was
not clear in the model the difference between 'Adjective' and 'Noun'
Property Term.
ACTION: Tim will go through the models and check all 'adjective'
and 'noun' column entries for consistency and integrity.
- Identification - >Identifier
Sue pointed out that the CCTS required that we keep the use of
Identification and Identifier as property terms
(Identification.Identifier becomes Identification)
- referential integrity of ABIEs
Fixed.
- TaxAmount(s)
After discussion it was decided that 'TaxAmounts' was OK as a
plural name and should be kept, but subsequently Tim pointed out
that the ABIE was redundant due to the 1..1 cardinality and so it
could be dropped altogether, which he did in the draft 6 model.
- 'flatness'
Lisa still felt that 40-odd BBIEs at the top of the Order Schema
required a container, being too 'flat' and giving a subjective
feeling of not being 'nice', particularly when considering the
needs of those mapping UBL to other standards. The container
discussion was reluctantly reopened for a while but without any
resolution. Tim proposed that it be set aside until the
post-implementation review. Lisa: a lot of the original backers
of the container rule had since left NDRSC.
4. Code set implementation review
- names, namespaces and prefixes
Only the UBL name was needed (ather than the complete Dictionary
Entry Name) in the namespace since the former is now unique to
each codelist (having been edited to this effect by SG).
ACTION: SG will edit the codelist namespaces to shorten them to
include the UBL name rather than the complete Dictionary Entry Name.
- populating code set values
There had been news that ISO would be charging for development use
and distribution of their codelists
ACTION: Sue will e-mail UNECE to ask for official wording
regarding any rights to distribute the joint ISO/UNECE codelists
ACTION: Ken will go through the release Index and add a section
about use of his stylesheet to bring external codelist enumerated
lists into UBL format codelist schemas. He will include the
stylesheet in the distribution by adding it to a new folder called
code', to which the his Index annex will point.
ACTION: Sue, in liaison with SG, will try to populate the catlogue
with code values, taken as far as possible from existing values in
UNECE codelists which are freely available to us (not the entire
lists – just as many of the values as we need and with the proviso
that we needn't keep just to existing external values if we wish
to add new ones). Narrative comments will identify the sources of
existing values.
- code list catalogue and types
Tim pointed out that the existing values in the catalogue are
prototypes and can be changed.
ACTION: Sue will also look at the codelist catalogue to see which
available external codelists should be used.
ACTION: Sue will look at the catalogue to see if any improvements
to designations Standard/Stock/Placebo can be made.
The following points were made about adjustments to the
definitions of Stock/Standard/Placebo and columns in the catalogue:
- NO values provided in the catalogue will NOT be default
(that is – included as Use schemas Out-of-the-box in UBL 1.0
beta)
- Placebos will be provided for ALL except Standard codelists
- Wherever Stock is the default we MUST have values provided
in the catalogue (CK – the tool will check for this)
5. Schedule for 1.00 Committee Spec
- models for 1.00 alpha (incorporating code sets)
Completed models (draft 6) from Tim via Sue via Steve to Chee-Kai
by Friday (for QA team)
ACTION: SG to make PaymentMeansType CodeID into a code
ACTION: SG to split StatusCode into DocumentStatusCode and LineStatusCode
ACTION: CK to include 3 metadata elements in the codelist schemas
to hold values for Qualifier, Agency and Version
ACTION: Sue will look up proper names for the 3 elements to be
added which need to be added to the catalogue as columns too.
ACTION: SG will add these to the instance examples too (core
component attributes for codes)
Discussion took place about the problem with not being able to
provide a mechanism out-of-the-box to validate codes which are
attribute defined within the CCType Schema. If NDR do not allow a
change (on the basis that the latter schema is to be common as
agreed to both UBL and other agencies) then LCSC can do nothing
about this.
ACTION: all present on this call to get to the Friday QA meeting
- schemas for 1.00 alpha (incorporating CCTypes)
- contents of package for QA
6. Schema Generation issues
- NDR rule R90
"A RootSchema in one UBL namespace that is dependant upon type
definitions or element declarations defined in another namespace
MUST NOT import schema modules from that namespace."
CK: if the wording is changed then there will not be a problem
- Representation terms (secondary and qualifiers)
ACTION: Sue by November to find out how datatypes and qualifiers,
etc should be used correctly (e.g. With UBL name) to keep UBL
completely CCTS compliant.
Tim: not likely to be achieved in 1.0 beta but for discussion in
San Francisco at face-to-face.
7. Documentation
- Comments on draft
(http://ubl.cim3.org/~lcsc/lcsc-distribution-v1-0_alpha/UBLv1-alpha/UBLv1.1-alpha-index_css.html)
ACTION: all concerned to review their own area of the above and talk about it Friday
8. Next Steps
9. Tools and Techniques - Chi-Kai
- Schema generation
10. QA team report
- Documentation
- Filenaming
11. NDR Rules update - Lisa
ACTION: Lisa to add RosettaNet review of N&D Rules to agenda of
tomorrows NDRSC meeting and send out the same review to NDRSC.
12. Other Business
CK: would like to add HTML renderings of the schema formats to the
deliverable. The group would look at these and decide.
ACTION: CK to send HTML renderings of the schemas to LCSC
13. Next meeting
Tuesday 30th September, same time and concall info
Please also attend this Friday's QA meeting.
Action Items
------------
20030909-01: Lisa take RosettaNet comments to NDR.
20030916-06: Chee-Kai create informational document on his SoftML tool(s)
which could be included in the UBL package.
20030923-01: Sue find out how datatypes, qualifiers, etc should be used
correctly (e.g. With UBL name) to keep UBL completely CCTS
compliant. Need by November.
20030923-02: All concerned to review their own area of the Index file
(sent out by Lisa) and talk about it Friday
20030923-03: Lisa to add RosettaNet review of N&D Rules to agenda of
tomorrows NDRSC meeting and send out the same review to NDRSC.
20030923-04: Chee-Kai send HTML renderings of the schemas to LCSC
20030923-05: Sue make a recommendation on the CCTS datatype naming
rules and use of datatypes.
20030923-06: Tim allocate a session on CCTS datatypes priori to F2F.
20030923-07: Tim will go through the models and check all 'adjective'
and 'noun' column entries for consistency and integrity.
20030923-08: SG will edit the codelist namespaces to shorten them to
include the UBL name rather than the complete Dictionary
Entry Name.
20030923-09: Sue will e-mail UNECE to ask for official wording
regarding any rights to distribute the joint ISO/UNECE
codelists.
20030923-10: Ken will go through the release Index and add a section
about use of his stylesheet to bring external codelist
enumerated lists into UBL format codelist schemas.
He will include the stylesheet in the distribution
by adding it to a new folder called code', to which
the his Index annex will point.
20030923-11: Sue, in liaison with SG, will try to populate the catlogue
with code values, taken as far as possible from existing
values in UNECE codelists which are freely available to us
(not the entire lists – just as many of the values as we
need and with the proviso that we needn't keep just to
existing external values if we wish to add new ones).
Narrative comments will identify the sources of existing values.
20030923-12: Sue will also look at the codelist catalogue to see which
available external codelists should be used.
20030923-13: Sue will look at the catalogue to see if any improvements
to designations Standard/Stock/Placebo can be made.
20030923-14: SG to make PaymentMeansType CodeID into a code
20030923-15: SG to split StatusCode into DocumentStatusCode and LineStatusCode
20030923-16: CK to include 3 metadata elements in the codelist schemas to
hold values for Qualifier, Agency and Version
20030923-17: Sue will look up proper names for the 3 elements to be
added which need to be added to the catalogue as columns too.
20030923-18: SG will add these to the instance examples too (core
component attributes for codes)
20030923-19: all present on this call to get to the Friday QA meeting
20030923-20: Sue by November to find out how datatypes and qualifiers,
etc should be used correctly (e.g. With UBL name) to keep
UBL completely CCTS compliant.
20030923-21: all concerned to review their own area of the above and
talk about it Friday
20030923-22: Lisa to add RosettaNet review of N&D Rules to agenda of
tomorrow's NDRSC meeting and send out the same review to NDRSC.
20030923-23: CK to send HTML renderings of the schemas to LCSC
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