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Subject: [ubl-ndrsc] Minutes for 16 January 2002 UBL NDR meeting

[Sorry it took so long for me to get these out.  Mark sent them to me a 
while back...]

1. Roll call
     Bill Burcham          YES
     Doug Bunting
     Dave Carlson
     Mavis Cournane        YES (x:15)
     Mark Crawford         YES (left y:26)
     John Dumay
     Matt Gertner
     Arofan Gregory        YES (x:25)
     Eduardo Gutentag      YES (x:25)
     Eve Maler
     Dale McKay            YES
     Joe Moeler            YES
     Sue Probert
     Ron Schuldt
     Gunther Stuhec
     Mike Rawlins          YES

     Quorum not reached; proceeded informally.

2. Acceptance of minutes of previous meeting
    9 January 2002

    Accepted by all present, but formal acceptance deferred  no quorum.

3. Adoption of agenda

    Adopted by those present.

4. Action item review

    ACTION: Mark to update tag structure position paper.
    Continued until Tuesday 22 January.

    ACTION: Sue and Maryann to do some use case brainstorming offline.
    Continued until the F2F.

    ACTION: Dale to work on the legal issues text provided by Arofan and give
    it to Mark for inclusion in the NDR document.
    DONE. Eve has forwarded to list.

    ACTION: Mark and Eduardo to propose a set of tag naming
    abbreviation rules before January 9. Consider Done.

    See also additional new ACTIONs below.

5. Current position paper champions, status, and priorities

    - Tag structure (A-priority)
    - Design principles
    - Relationship between UBL and UN/CEFACT constructs
    - Choice of schema language (DONE)
    - TPA
    - Customization (taken over by Context Methodology SC)
    - Modularization/namespaces/versioning (A-priority)
    - Elements vs. attributes
    - Document size and performance considerations (Section 6.1)
    - Use cases (with Maryann) (A-priority)
    - Local vs. global elements
    - Code (enumerated) lists
    - Legal issues

6. Modnamver position
    See Bill's Updated paper, sent to the list on January 14.

    Bill began reviewing his updates.  He made minor changes based on last
    week 7+/-2 rule.  :last version set this forth, but not much support
    from group, so concept has been relegated to a footnote in sec 3.2.
    This section now talks about optimum component size and says we will
    try and manage complexity while allowing subsetting for performance
    Mavis  do you think this is too vague?
    Bill  yes it is, but not sure how to address.  A lot of people in OO
    community strive towards this rule, so perhaps we need to re-look this.
    Mark  how does vagueness fit in with a standard, and how do we
    approach this?
    Bill  should we spin out further (performance driver for example) to
    come up with something more substantive.
    Mike - Current form is adequate.
    Bill  do people understand subsetting solution?
    Mavis  no
    Bill  it is possible to structure a schema in one big block, but
    necessitates version change for overall.  It is possible to structure a
    schema to minimize this.
    Mark  how?
    Bill  see section 6 and 7. Idea of separate root schema's is that we
    can manage the includes (transitive closure) that an instance for an
    order doesn't necessarily include the definitions for invoicing.  A big
    C++ system problem that occurs all the time.
    Bill  Section 4.3 table where we can add namespace identifiers when we
    determine them.  Are we going to use URN vs URI?  ebXML Messaging just
    went to URN.
    Bill  some semantic control on URN's.

    ACTION: Bill and Mavis to champion this issue and determine an

    Bill  is the library group identifying functional component?
    Mark  currently only looking at order to decompose to BIE's
    (Note - Eduardo and Arofan joined at x:25.)
    Arofan - believes that library group, once they begin work, will
    provide quick feedback.
    Section 5  support option 3, but allow for future migration to option
    4.  Option 4 will require more design rules.
    Section 7  UML diagram 

    ACTION: Everyone to critique diagram.

    ACTION: Arofan, Tim, and Lisa to develop example based on current
    thinking in library group and leveraging NDR stuff to see if it can
    work. Anticipate certain part of the example will be ready for F2F

    Mike  Can Bill walk through diagrams?
    Bill   yes
    (Note  refer to diagrams in updated paper to follow this discussion.)
    Root schema and instance file are XSD files. Instance root imports
    exactly one root schema.  Root schema represents all the types for one
    functional stovepipe. Would define global types that would include as
    needed schema modules.  Each root schema has exactly one xml namespace.
    Bill - Root schema defines all the types you will need, you would
    include other root schemas that define types you need.  Instance root
    represents ubl messages. Documents should not cross own functional area
    namespaces. If it lives in more than one space, then there are
    significant versioning issues.  At what point do we allow cross
    functional includes to happen? 
    Arofan - below root schema level., otherwise, root schema can include
    another root schema.  Core should be stuff that is truly generic that
    gets used in more than one functional area.
    Bill  need rules. i.e. No circular dependencies between root schema's.
    Bill and Arofan - Each namespace will have a root schema. and schema
    modules with a structure that makes reuse more convenient while
    respecting the namespace. The module may be of interest to other
    functional areas. When crossing namespace boundaries, point to
    namespace and mod file you want to use, but crossing does not
    transition mod file to borrowing namespace.
    Bill - What about dependencies?  Need to traverse tree.  xCBL created
    own parser to handle this issue. Namespace size drives complexity of
    issue. Should we only load one functional namespace and core, or should
    we say that if you borrow modules, then you have to identify namespace
    at top of document.  xCBL only has two levels of namespace.

    ACTION: UBL approach needs to be discussed further at face to face. Two
    options to consider Options 1) no borrowing across functional areas or
    2) only load suborganization.

6. Agenda and goals for F2F

    Goal is to reach resolution on all outstanding issue papers and related

    To organize our work, we need list of all issues, prioritized, and then
    we need to address one by one.

    ACTION: Namespace issues need to be raised to library committee for
    joint resolution.

    Question - How do we come to include all dependencies and reach

    We decided we need to go through each of the issue papers by order of
    importance, identify each issue, make list, note dependencies,
    prioritize, and then begin deliberations and make decisions.
    dependencies must be identified and tracked as they are

    We decided we need to work with context group and library group before
    we start our deliberations.

    We agreed we need list of interdependent issues to better organize our
    work, then our weekly meetings will be more effective.

n.  Adjourn
     Adjourned at y:02.
Eve Maler                                    +1 781 442 3190
Sun Microsystems XML Technology Center   eve.maler @ sun.com

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