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Subject: [ubl-ndrsc] Minutes for 10 April 2002 UBL NDR SC telecon

1. Roll call
    Bill Burcham         YES (joined y:40)
    Mavis Cournane       YES
    Mark Crawford        YES
    Fabrice Desré
    John Dumay
    Matt Gertner         YES
    Jessica Glace        YES
    Arofan Gregory       YES
    Phil Griffin
    Eduardo Gutentag     YES
    Eve Maler            YES
    Joe Moeller
    Sue Probert
    Ron Schuldt
    Lisa Seaburg         YES
    Gunther Stuhec
    Paul Thorpe          YES

    Quorum reached.

    New ACTION: Eve to talk to John Dumay, Sue Probert, Joe Moeller,
    Ron Schuldt to see if they want to drop their NDR memberships.
    Also talk to Gunther about rejoining the calls.

2. Acceptance of minutes of previous meetings

    27 February 2002 telecon:

    6 March 2002 telecon:

    13 March 2002 telecon:

    18-22 March 2002 F2F meeting:

    3 April 2002 telecon:

    Minutes accepted for all.

3. Adoption of agenda

    Agenda adopted.

4. NDR document production (led by Mavis): brief

    We agreed to various outline changes that would more accurately
    reflect the principle of factoring out common rules into a
    higher-level section.

    We agreed that the NDR document should be written as a "true spec",
    with crisp normative prose in the main text, and only references to
    appendices containing position papers that contain rationales for our
    decisions.  So, for instance, the elements vs. attributes paper won't
    be incorporate as such into the text; it will be included as an

    We agreed that we should include examples wherever possible, but to
    say in the preface that examples are non-normative.

    We deferred a decision on whether to include context methodology
    information directly into the NDR document.  One thing is certain:
    The context methodology shouldn't be a bottleneck for NDR.

    Mavis will continue to edit the draft and will talk to individual
    position paper authors before incorporating text from them.

    New ACTION: Eve to help Mavis with applying an "OASIS Word template"
    to the NDR document.

5. RT/CCT discussion: 20 min
    See the thread starting at:

    We need a way of describing the semantic function of a piece of
    information (RT), and then we need a path to the structure that
    provides clusters of properties (CCT).  The relationship is not
    one-to-one, and thus we need the ability for each XML construct to
    have an assignment to both.  E.g., an element can be assigned an XSD
    type corresponding to a CCT, and it can have a fixed attribute
    corresponding to an RT (or its dictionary entry can merely reflect
    this information).

    Right now, the relationship between RTs and CCTs is nominally
    many-to-one, but there are certain ways in which this breaks down in
    practice.  The proposal would make it many-to-many.

    (The problem of capturing precision information sounds like it may be
    a "hole" in the original CCTS analysis, so maybe it's not specific to
    our work.)

    If we really go in this direction, then the LC SC is likely to need
    to identify an additional piece of information, in addition to the
    RT, for each of their rows.

    New ACTION: Arofan to attempt a more specific proposal along these

6. Filling in the tag structure holes (led by Mavis): 20 min
    See the latest position paper at:

    We reviewed these, but didn't decide any.

    New ACTION: Mavis to post each of the "live" issues to the NDR list
    separately for email discussion.

7. Action items and prioritizing our next chunk of work: brief

    Summary of work to be done (revised during this call):

    A External recommendations for changes to CCTS
    A Code lists
    A Modnamver
    A NDR document production
    A Review the purchase order schema design
    **A Officially decide elements vs. attributes and empty elements
    B Tag structure
    B Containership
    B Fixed vs. varying types
    C Dates and times

    Schedule (revised during this call):

    **April 17: Code lists, tag structure, RT/CCT comments,
      elem vs. att (2hr)
    April 24: (1hr)
    May 1: (2hr)
    May 8: (1hr)
    May 15: (2hr)
    May 22: (1hr)
    May 29: (what else?), approve NDR document for distribution (2hr)
    June 5-9 (the F2F meeting itself, if all goes according to plan)

    Current ACTION items (not reviewed explicitly during the call):

    - A: Review the modnamver paper, the examples, and the 0.64 schema
    - A: Read Matt's types paper by 10 April and see if we want to
      prioritize it higher.

    - A: Tag structure paper w/RT&CCT schema thoughts
    - A: Analysis of NDR document situation

    - A: Ask Mavis to write up NDR SC external comments on RT/CCT
    - A: Code list paper

    - A: RT/CCT "property" comments
    - C: Role model paper

    - A: RT/CCT comments to list (DONE)
    - B: Containership paper

    - C: Date/time paper

8. Adjourn
    Adjourned z:00.
Eve Maler                                    +1 781 442 3190
Sun Microsystems XML Technology Center   eve.maler @ sun.com

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