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Subject: [ubl-ndrsc] NDRSC Minutes 15th January 2003

Dear all
please find last week's minutes below.

NDRSC Minutes 15th January 2003

1. Attendees

Mark Crawford
Mavis Cournane
Arofan Gregory
Eve Maler(y:20)
Matt Gertner (y:10)
Bill Burcham
Gunther Stuhec
Paul Thorpe
Michael Grimley
Jon Bosak
Lisa Seaburg

2. accepting minutes

Dec 4th
Nov 27th
Nov 13t
Nov 6th
Oct 30t
Approved all minutes

3. Agree agenda
added NDR scheduling and packaging as extra items

4. Action items

Scheduling and Packaging

LCSC XSD schema is missing pieces in the aggregates that appear in the 

Everything in our schema should be an extension to the base schema and it is 
not clear whether this is being done.
Gunther revealed that it is not being done.

LCSC have cancelled their soft release to the liaision groups and will make 
just one release on Jan 20th. The status of this release will be reviewed today 
in an LCSC call.

The release directory is being pointed to from their packaging file. We have 
dropped in version 21 of the NDR document.

Mark broached the subject of packaging and whether we put it out as a single 
package to move forwards through the standards bodies or 
2 separate packages. Mark does not want the NDR subsetted into the schema and 
LCSC release, they should be put forth as an individual standards.
This discussion was deferred to a future date and will be worked on in the 
background by Jon.

Arofan broached the subject of extension of the UBL schema.
Everthing in the UBL schema should be an extension (restriction) of the ur 
namespace according to our thinking of context method. 

What is the impact on the current syntax? It is a dramatic one. 

We have to write CM rules that details what we intend at some stage. This will 
not happen for this release.

Arofan will write a short couple of paragraphs for insertion in the LCSC 
release notes documenting breifly our intention. This will need to reach Lisa 
by 5pm today. Lisa will brief Tim and the relevant LCSC members on this.
At a minimum release the UR and 80/20 schemas for the May release.

We need to generate short paragraph that can be stuck in to the LC thing. 
Arofan will send out a paragraph to Lisa by 5pm.

Action item review
Rules in the NDR. Mark will be doing a fresh edit later this week and will 
update v21.

Gunther set of handcrafted xxx. 
This is the  paper about all CCTs and their definitions. It has been written 
and reviewed by Lisa. Gunther suggests that we insert 
this in to the NDR document and use the same structure to explain date and 
time. NDR members will need to look at this more fully. It is available on the 

Matt's context methodology paper - needs to be reviewed. Matt will take care of 
getting it reviewed. The questions the review group need to answer are - Do we 
still agree with it and does it reflect the Minneapolis decisions.
We will have a joint meeting with LCSC at F2F about CM.

Arofan, polymorphism 
0.5 of it is done. It is part of the versioning discussion and is deferred.

Eve, code list rules (final by end of December). Gunther tried implementing it 
in the schemas, missing convention for the prefix of the codelist namespace. 
Eve should not be one,
At the top level we will need a handcrafed module in addtion to the CCT type 
module. Our handcrafted module needs
to have an adaptor that binds an imported module type to a UBL element. Eve 
says that the LCSC library needs to do the following:
1. ensure code list mod meets our requirements
1a if no code list module is supplied by the external organization we will 
create and name a dummy one. 
2. import the module in to our code list adaptor module, which will take their 
types and namespaces and map it to our types and our namespaces.
Action: We need to inform the lib content that they need to name their code 

If we are in the position of making dummy code list, we don't have to make it 
perfect but the supplementary components desirable to get something approx 
correctness in the future if new updates come out.
Ideally we should supply LCSC with a questionnaire that will help them do this 
dummy creation work.
The code list rules currently adhere to 1.8 of CCTS. However, in 1.85 there are 
new supplementary components that apply to codes and identifiers both.
Gunther made recommendations about this and these are not reflected in this 
document on code list rules. Lisa will work with Eve on this.

5. LCSC request approval from NDR on XSD schema
We need to tell them something. The schema that we have right now handfixed by 
Tim does not follow the rules we have in the NDR doc. The perl script is 
handling everything as local elements and need to be changed to Global to 
reflect the NDR decision.

6. Local vs Global. 
The nut of the problem is that when we decided to go from local to global we 
took away the ability for elements with different contents to have the same name
In BuyerParty and  SelllerParty you havean address structure . If you wanted 
the structure to differ you would now have to call it BuyerAddress and 
sellerAddres. This has implications for the spreadsheet. 
They now have 2 different dictionary rows, if the UBL names get truncated and 
these are bound to two different types you have problems. You want to be aware 
early of what you are using.
The name truncation cannot make them quite as short. This is a problem if you 
want to implement it in an interface. 
For example, you have BuyerPartyDetails, and you have Address. Later you see 
you need a restriction of the Address. As you have
globally defined elements now you have to change the tag name completely in all 
the interfaces. Gunther also claimed that you now have too much redundnacy , 
you have Buyer two or three times, with very long tagnames.

However, for now the following must be done.
We need to define a global element for each complext type for the perl script. 
If we want to revisit this after we get the results then so be it.
The big pro without Globla elemnets we don't have a reusable libaryr of 

Gunther will modify his perl scripts and we will look at how drastic the 
results are. Hopefully, they will not be severe enough to stop the LCSC release.
 Gunther will work with Tim on this. It will require that the source 
spreadsheet will have to be disambiguated.

To summarize. The local vs global decisions is not reflected in the schema and 
it has to be. In doing so it may have an impact on the spreadsheet. We will 
know the impact tomorrow.

Is anybody opposed to reconsider our annotation decision. Nobody is opposed. 
We agreed to use XHTML at the Minneapolis. In the NDR document we have figured 
out how we would put in the info about XHTML. 
We decided in the NDR document on the presentation of it  and that captures the 
guts of the decision paper. It is not currently fleshed out.
 In the release notes, we will say that the NDR team has tentatively decided in 
the future this is going to be XHTML structure and we would be interested in 
what people think.

Adjourned y:60

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