RE: [ubl-ndrsc] Minutes from 5 March NDR Call

[Matthew Gertner <matthew.gertner@acepoint.cz>]

I did actually send regrets but the mail I sent to Mark bounced back for
some reason.

Matt

> -----Original Message-----
> From: CRAWFORD, Mark [mailto:MCRAWFORD@lmi.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 7:12 PM
> To: UBL Design Rules (E-mail)
> Subject: [ubl-ndrsc] Minutes from 5 March NDR Call
> 
> 
> The NDR SC met by phone on Wednesday, 5 March 2003 from 16:30-17:58
GMT.
> Please use the following dial-in information:
> 
> 1.  Roll Call and Welcome from the chair (Mark), assignment of
co-chair to
> take minutes.
> 
> Mavis Cournane	Present (left at x:30)
> Eduardo Gutentag	Regrets
> Jessica Glace		Present
> Michael Grimley	Regrets
> Paul Thorpe		Regrets
> Kris Ketels		Regrets
> Bill Burcham		Regrets
> Gunther Stuhec	Present (at x:12)
> Matt Gertner		AWOL
> Dan Vint		AWOL
> Fabrice Desré		AWOL
> Lisa Seaburg		Present (at x:15)
> Ann Hendry		Present
> Arofan Gregory	Present
> Sue Probert		Regrets
> Jim Wilson 		Regrets
> Eve Maler 		Present
> Jon Bosak		Present
> Mark Crawford	Present
> Marion Royal		Present at x:25
> 
> at x:10 we did not have quorum and proceeded informally
> 
> 2.  Acceptance of minutes from previous meeting - deferred due to lack
of
> quorum.
> 
> 3.  Adoption of agenda/schedule planning.  Adopted
> 
> 4. Review priorities and assignment of work items (Mavis/Lisa/Mark)
> 
> Mavis helping Gunter with common core components document.  Have
chunked
> this document out to 9 people with due back to Mavis on 3/10.  We have
> gotten a lot of comments back from Garrett indicating that there is a
> divergence between Op70 and CCTS version 1.9.  Some general discussion
on
> this issue.  Ann read one comment and the sense of the group was that
we
> have the issue covered, but we may not have it well explained in the
> release package.
> 
> Gunter asked the question regarding representation terms (primary and
> secondary)  and core component types.  There appears to be some
confusion
> and Gunter needs to make more clear the association and identification
of
> primary and secondary representation terms and CCTs.  Gunter will put
in
> additional documentation.
> 
> 5. Review NDR release schedule (Mark)
> 
> Mark has received only the input from Bill.  Others still
> 
> Local v Global			Waiting on report from Jim
> ModNamVer			Bill has submitted
> Core Components		Gunter and Mavis have paper in progress.
Due next
> week
> Embedded Documentation	Group has made decision.  XHTML is
decision.
> Mavis to write narrative to support rule.
> 
> There was some discussion surrounding Gunter's embedded documentation
> paper and how to post.  Gunter will ensure that XHTML option is
included
> and that the decision of the NDR to use XHTML is included as an
editorial
> comment.  Mavis will review, edit, and post.
> 
> 6. Review Code list output (Lisa)
> 
> Lisa has sent material to list.  Has seen Eve's email posted today,
but
> has not followed through with it.  Lisa will pursue.  Eve thinks that
the
> UN/ECE is moving in our direction and is close to what we need but we
> still need to work with them to really adhere to what we are doing and
to
> come to agreement on what attributes (see Gunter's paper) are needed
for
> well known code lists as opposed to what attributes are required for
> lesser known code lists.  Lisa and Arofan need to look at what Eve has
> sent out and compare with CCTS 1.9.  Eve and Lisa and Arofan will have
a
> call on Monday to discuss and will have updated paper by mid next week
to
> share with UN/ECE and ATG2.
> 
> 7. Updates on status of Local vs. Global (Jim)
> 
> Jim has submitted report that only one comment was received.  Mark
stated
> that procedurally there does not appear to be support for reversing
the
> decision.  Jon raised an issue that we did not give sufficient time
for
> the discussion and he can't believe that people don't have an opinion.
> Eve stated that she does have some thoughts, but they are not to
reverse
> the decision, rather to take advantage of opportunities to improve the
> process for defining the names and improving the pearl script.  Eve
will
> look at the paper in more detail.  We will extend the comment period
until
> Monday the 17th.  Lisa will send announcement to UBL listserve
indicating
> that comment period is extended.
> 
> 8. Containership (Arofan)
> 
> Arofan has three problems with the existing release 1) there may be
some
> processing concerns with some built-in inefficiencies in how the
library
> is structured 2) if not neatly encapsulated, then it is difficult to
> understand and there may be binding issues 3) with the containership
as it
> stands, if we try and extend using the context mechanism, we have
> insufficient containers to add header type of field and so would have
to
> add after all of the line items.  Eve says that we discussed 3 in our
> original containership discussions, but we have said that if we
normalize,
> if we use real semantic basis, then adding to the end does not cause a
> problem since they are related to the parent.  But the actual
performance
> issue may mean that we need to revisit.  Eve agrees that we never
reached
> formal agreement on containership and that in October we felt that we
were
> in general agreement with the LC approach, but we reserved final
judgment
> until after we looked at the Op70 release.  Arofan does not think
these
> containers are a semantic function, but a design function.  Arofan has
two
> proposals: 1) Do we artificially insert a header and body container
(not
> proposing a summary container) and 2) when we have lists of like
things,
> for performance reasons and encapsulation reasons do we have a
container
> that wraps around them - i.e. list containers.  Arofan feels these are
the
> points where LC normalization breaks down.  Eve thinks there may be
> semantic issues.  Eve
> might support more containers if done smartly.  Mark asked if we can
> define clear rules that would ensure consistent LC approach.  Arofan
feels
> it can.  Mark asked if Arofan would update paper.  Arofan proposed
> alternative in which he would write specific rules and supporting
> narrative.  Mark asked Marion if he thought we should have discussion
with
> LC.  Marion said we should do on listserve.  Arofan does not think it
is
> LC issue.  Eve suggested that Arofan update paper, NDR review and
discuss
> on next weeks call, and then if we agree with Arofan's proposal we
then
> enter into discussions with LC to determine if they have any pushback.
> Arofan to have paper out by end of week and we will discuss on next
weeks
> call.
> 
> 9. Polymorphism Resolution
> 
> Eve is not sure that what we are talking about under polymorphism is
> really inheritance.  Mark wants to know how to discuss in NDR
document.
> Matt is supposed to be providing some words that describes this for
> inclusion in the ModNamVer paper.  Mark query Matt and Bill to see if
this
> has happened.
> 
> 10. Administrative Matters
> 
> Portal Update - Lisa to ping Mavis to get portal up to date.
> Membership Status - two prospective members.  Mark to raise issue on
> chairs list:  two people are they voting members.
> 
> 11. Other business.  None.
> 
> Next call scheduled for 12 March.
>
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?day=12&month=3&year
=2
> 003&hour=16&min=30&sec=0&p1=0
> 
> 
> We adjourned at Y:28.
> 
> ----------------------------------
> 
> Mark
> Mark Crawford
> Research Fellow - LMI XML Lead
> W3C Advisory Committee, OASIS, RosettaNet Representative
> Vice Chair - OASIS UBL TC & Chair Naming and Design Rules Subcommittee
> Chair - UN/CEFACT XML Syntax Working Group
> Editor - UN/CEFACT Core Components
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> "Opportunity is what you make of it"
> 
> 
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