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Subject: RE: [ubl-psc] Re: Punchout in UBL 2.0
All, All: All: A few comments on "punch-out" and on associated roles. First, it is good to see punch-out represented in the UBL model, if perhaps rather tentatively, which I presume sets the stage for further progress. My comments have to do with the role of punch-out as well as its intersection with "roles." In the purchasing transaction cycle, the originator (requisitioner) in a conventional non-production purchasing process creates a requirements transaction - typically a requisition with rather informal content. The requisitioner uses whatever information he or she has available, which might include a quote as an attachment, but requisitioners would rarely be so diligent as to incorporate all the detail into the requisition. (The quote step is referenced in the UBL process as associated with the originator, but if supplier selection is an open issue, often the buyer would issue the request for quote). In punch-out, the "originator" punches out to the target supplier web site in order to create the body of the requisition. The user's interaction with the supplier's site in effect "bundles" the creation of requisition content (e.g., how many widgets the user wants, when etc.) and the supplier's content - part numbers, price, etc.) into a unified (and standardized) return XML document. Both xCBL and cXML as well as OBI 3.0 long ago each defined such a document. Although the term catalog (catalogue) is used in the UBL process description, punch-out is strongly aligned with configurators and other dynamic content - e.g., a product may not be configurable, but the logistics aspects may require choices, there may be comments regarding environmental matters, etc. Note that within the punchout dialog the originator is dynamically integrating requisition data and supplier pricing and nomenclature and perhaps handling instructions, etc. into a single XML document. This is an exceedingly important "use case" fact, because what is a major service requirement is that nobody be asked to rekey any of this data. The benefit of this unified document is that as the punchout-originated transaction data flows through the customer's purchase to pay process and the seller's order to cash process, all downstream process synchronize smoothly. What OASIS-UBL can help accomplish is the standardization of what I term the inter-entity aspects of this dialog. The statement in 3.1.3 that punchout is tightly coupled to the specific catalog operation is not true. Indeed, it cannot be true, because all substantial sellers have had to interact with multiple implementations. What all prior standards-setting art did was to define the user session handoff (outbound) and the user and user document return. It is in that domain that we need an update to replace xCBL and cXML, and OBI (and Rosetta Net I believe has such a "PIP." OASIS UBL is in effect the inheritor of OBI and xCBL. Note that punchout is a "big deal" in terms of what it can accomplish and its future potential. On the other hand, it is a "little deal" from the perspective of the work required to create the appropriate UBL constructs. Today's environment can be leveraged as a source of best practice. One comment on your description of role shifts. In punch-out and, for that matter, in much ordinary in-house catalog ordering, the "originator" (requisitioner) may click on buttons to commit the transaction, but rarely becomes the "buyer." Indeed, under the division of responsibility ordinarily enforced in SAP MM and like products, those roles are kept distinct. That separation is also important from various regulatory perspectives - cost center control, environmental controls, etc. I suggest that rather than describing roles reverting to the "originator," a more accurate description is that the roles are automated - performed via workflow (the same being true on the sellers side). Buyer's roles (typically vendor selection, pricing management, contract terms and conditions) and the enforcement of spending authority is performed by automated workflow, and the people filling those reviewer roles deal with exception cases. Workflow is therefore acting as a proxy for the buyer (or other reviewing parties). Below I put in two links regarding this subject. The first has more information on punchout/OBI/Roundtrip. The second has to do with some larger "trans-enterprise" workflow opportunities reaching beyond buying and selling. Punchout is probably the major exemplar today of mass "trans-enterprise" workflow. In some contexts outside the scope of eBusiness it has great potential to solve challenging information management processes involving fine-grained, high risk privacy and security constraints. Fulton Wilcox Colts Neck Solutions LLC . http://www.xmloptimization.com/OBIdialog1.html http://www.xmloptimization.com/ISE1.html http://www.coltsnecksolutions.com/needknow1.html -----Original Message----- From: Stephen Green [mailto:stephen_green@bristol-city.gov.uk] Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 10:20 AM To: arundgren@rsasecurity.com Cc: ulf.palmgren@abc.se; fulton.wilcox@coltsnecksolutions.com; ubl-psc@lists.oasis-open.org Subject: [ubl-psc] Re: Punchout in UBL 2.0 I agree that punchout is not particularly included in the process model document but I think it has had much consideration over the past few cycles of UBL. A punchout-like scenario was one reason to include both BuyerID and SellerID in documents such as Order. The problem, in my view, is that 'punchout' is a loose term. I'd value further use case information on what aspects aren't catered for. Perhaps the use case implied is more one of marketplace than 'punchout' and here we are indeed aware that customisations may be required - for the well considered reason that here there is more impact of the 'blackbox' business system on the document interface. All the best Stephen Green >>> Tim McGrath <tmcgrath@portcomm.com.au> 27/09/05 14:58:49 >>> thanks for the comment, but i am not sure that we are leaving interoperability as "someone else's problem". it is that we see punch out as a tightly coupled activity that is outside UBL's scope as a document exchange standard. we certainly try to address interoperability at the document exchnage level. in case i missed something i will pass this onto our procurement subcommittee who may have more to add. Rundgren, Anders wrote: >http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/ubl/200507/msg00033.html > >It is a bit pity that the UBL people disregard close to >ten years of experience with "punchout" schemes that have >showed that interoperability of this part is pretty hard, >including agreeing on security issues (buyer authentication >is indeed an integral part of such schemes). > >Even the now defunct OBI standard, in its earliest (96-97) >incarnations, addressed both catalog interoperability and >security, while UBL leaves those thorny issues for >"somebody else to fix". > >But, OTOH a "genuine" punchout scheme would IMHO not build >on simply recasting a few messages because then you would >not be able to unleash the full power of the "punchout" >process. > >regards >Anders Rundgren >Principal Engineer >RSA Security > > > > -- regards tim mcgrath phone: +618 93352228 postal: po box 1289 fremantle western australia 6160 DOCUMENT ENGINEERING: Analyzing and Designing Documents for Business Informatics and Web Services http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?sid=632C40AB-4E94-4930-A94E -22FF8CA5641F&ttype=2&tid=10476
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