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Subject: SV: SV: [ubl-psc] Dealing with Issues list was:Re: [ubl-psc] Schedule for next conference calls


Hi Tim
 
I agree with you that there should only be one counting base price pr. line. what I have proposed is that a base price can have a fixed price-amount OR a quantity denpendend price, which is a new ABIE containing the elements we left out (with maximumQauntity, mimimumQuantity, MinimumAmount, MaximumAmount)

Kind regards
 
Peter
 
 -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: Tim McGrath [mailto:tmcgrath@portcomm.com.au]
Sendt: 10. april 2006 23:11
Til: ubl-psc@lists.oasis-open.org
Emne: Re: SV: [ubl-psc] Dealing with Issues list was:Re: [ubl-psc] Schedule for next conference calls

I agree that you may purchase nails as you state but I thought we had decided this would be done as 2 separate lines (as you have written them yourself). 

Having made the decision last year that the cardinality for BasePrice in its associations with Item and LineItem was 0..1 then it makes it confusing to have MinimumQuantity and MaximumQuantity.  They could be used to express the price breaks you want in various ways. For example...

LineItem1 = 500 nails at LineItem/BasePrice = 2 cents (Item/BasePrice/MinimumQuantity=1, Item/BasePrice/MaximumQuantity=500, PriceAmount= 2 cents)
LineItem2 = 500 nails at LineItem/BasePrice = 1 cent (Item/BasePrice/MinimumQuantity=500, Item/BasePrice/MaximumQuantity=2000, PriceAmount= 1 cent)
or
LineItem1 = 500 nails at (LineItem/BasePrice/MinimumQuantity=1, LineItem/BasePrice/MaximumQuantity=500) = 2 cents
LineItem1 = 500 nails at (LineItem/BasePrice/MinimumQuantity=500, LineItem/BasePrice/MaximumQuantity=2000) = 1 cent
or
LineItem1 = 1000 nails at LineItem/BasePrice = 1.5 cents (Item/BasePrice/MinimumQuantity=1, Item/BasePrice/MaximumQuantity=500) and (Item/BasePrice/MinimumQuantity=500, Item/BasePrice/MaximumQuantity=2000)
or (even)
LineItem1 = 500 nails at (LineItem/BasePrice/MinimumQuantity=1, LineItem/BasePrice/MaximumQuantity=500) = 2 cents (Item/BasePrice/MinimumQuantity=1, Item/BasePrice/MaximumQuantity=500, PriceAmount= 2 cents)
LineItem1 = 500 nails at (LineItem/BasePrice/MinimumQuantity=500, LineItem/BasePrice/MaximumQuantity=2000) = 1 cent (Item/BasePrice/MinimumQuantity=1, Item/BasePrice/MaximumQuantity=500, PriceAmount= 2 cents)

Furthermore, if we start adding multiple BasePrices to line items based on quantities, then we must also add multipel BasePrices based on locations and we end up with even more complexity. 

A better idea is to put Quantity and Location outside the BasePrice and ensure we have only one BasePrice per pricing unit (ie line item). Such as...

LineItem1 = 500 nails at LineItem/BasePrice = 2 cents
LineItem2 = 500 nails at LineItem/BasePrice = 1 cent

.. and allow for a reference to a price list or catalogue for  breakdown of the pricing.

I disagree that we did not understand the requirement so we took it out of UBL 1.0.  I was actually convinced by the argument of the Catalogue group that the way we propose with UBL 2.0 is closer to real requirements and will make implementations clearer.

It says in the change log the reason given for dropping the MaximumQuantity and MinimumQuantity in BasePrice was "Quantity is not the only parameter for a price. Could not explain a use for it".  We dropped MaximumAmount and MinimumAmount because the  idea of different pricing based on spend amount wouldn't work this way (although we actually said "Could not explain a use for it").  Perhaps we could improve on those reasons.

I feel a bit guilty about this issue as, while we discussed the BasePrice cardinality several times since last September, it does appear I removed MinimumQuantity and MaximumQuantity at the last minute (between versions 20051210 and 20051219 of draft 12).  I apologize if you had not time to review this - it was over that chaotic time last Christmas when we were assembling the release package. Still we are reviewing it now :-[


Peter Borresen wrote:
Hi Tim

I have been convinsed by freddy that a baseprice can be quantity dependend.
There are cases where quantity times baseprice are not equal price (I call
this a quantity-dependend price)

If you order 1000 nails and the price for the nails are
2 cents for 1-500 nails
1 cent for 500-2000 nails

The price you get is $15 (ten dollar for the first 500 and five for the last
500). You could specify that in UBL 1.0, but we have taken that out because
we did not understood it.

In the ordering time you agree on a price, but I am convinsed that this price
could also be quantity dependend. This means that the quantity dependend
price also exists in time of billing.

Kind regrads

Peter



-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: Tim McGrath [mailto:tmcgrath@portcomm.com.au]
Sendt: 10. april 2006 01:45
Til: swebb@gefeg.com
Cc: ubl-psc@lists.oasis-open.org
Emne: [ubl-psc] Dealing with Issues list was:Re: [ubl-psc] Schedule for
next conference calls



Sylvia Webb wrote:

  
Tim,

Thanks for taking the time to submit your comments. I hope others that
aren't able to make the calls will submit their comments about dispositions
as well.

Please note the question for you about base price in the draft minutes dated
7 April. They were uploaded to the PSC document repository.  

 

    
My original comment was a bit terse.  I said "BasePrice depends on 
Quantity and Location.  So BasePrice is within ItemLocationQuantity".  
What we discussed in the Catlogue project and proposed to the PSC was:
a. There should only ever be one instance of BasePrice for an Item on an 
Order or Invoice/Billing document. The buyer wil only propose one price 
and the seller certainly will be unambiguous about the price per Item.
b. The only situation where an Item may have many BasePrices is in the  
sourcing process and then it is not simply the Item that determines the 
BasePrice but also the quantities required and the location they are 
required in.  So we have a new ABIE ItemLocationQuantity that says "If 
you want this much of this item in this place here is the price".

It seems the proposal from Veronique suggests we invert this so 
BasePrice can have multiple occurrences (dependant on quantity and maybe 
location), but that would dilute the original purpose of having only one 
BasePrice.

  
I will post revised spreadsheets to the full UBL TC listserv as they are
available.  

Do you need to take a leave of absence from the PSC? I will post the
schedule for additional calls after our meeting on the 18th April.

 

    
it depends on the schedule.  I am OK until the 18th.

  
Regards,
Sylvia 

 

    

-- 
regards
tim mcgrath
phone: +618 93352228  
postal: po box 1289   fremantle    western australia 6160
web: http://www.portcomm.com.au/tmcgrath


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