Roberto,
Thanks again for your input (You did NOT
say too much. On the contrary.) .
Actually, I agree that the term “shipment”
should be the same throughout all UBL documents. Our discussion started
when the JLSC noted a slight discrepancy in the wording for Shipment between
what was in the B/L and what was in the waybill. Indeed all documents
referring to shipment should have shipment defined with the same wording. Our
current challenge is to find the right words to define Shipment so as to reflect
how UBL makes use of the object or core component we call shipment.
In some ways I think we are still
grappling with the distinctions that need to be made between Shipment and
Consignment. I have searched the UNCEFACT core component libraries and cannot
seem to find a Core Component called “Shipment” so I am a bit
confused with Henk’s comment concerning the definitions of Shipment and
Consignment. Can you help on this Henk?
Perhaps Tim could also share some of the
rationale developed for defining both shipment and consignment.
Thanks
Andy
From: JAVEST [mailto:roberto@javest.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008
2:22 PM
To: Andrew Schoka
Cc: hvmaaren@cetima.nl; ubl-tsc@lists.oasis-open.org;
dvankemmel@wanadoo.fr; heikki.laaksamo@tieke.fi; fmh@progrator.dk; ihu@ds.dk;
KVP@itst.dk; Michael.Onder@dot.gov; ralph.ho@tradelink.com.hk; 'Connie Hing,
Phaik See'; 'Kama, Kamarudin Bin Tambi'; jon.bosak@sun.com; 'Tim McGrath'
Subject: Re: [ubl-tsc] Re: TSC
Action Item FollowUp
Andrew,
the presence of a FreightForwarderParty on the UBL document show me the Shipment
will contain a shipment contract data, as the Shipper (Seller) will ask the
FreightForwarderParty do take care of all transport contracts.
There is not a real shipment contract when Seller directly take care of the
whole shipment. This happen when a Seller has his own organization and do
not need Customs Brokers or other specific third party services.
To answer your question, I think Shipment has the same meaning for all UBL
documents (Bill of Lading and Waybills), the shipment defines all shipment
stages for multimodal and combined transport. Any B/L or Waybill
type can be used for multimodal transport (staged).
The main context into international shipments is given by DeliveryTerms
(Incoterms 2000) which is under Consignment in UBL.
A sample:
The terms of transportation in the bill of lading should be the same as those
in the underlying contract for sale of the goods and subject to Incoterms 2000.
Incoterms indicates that the buyer will select the carrier and pay the freight
charges when it is an Ex Works or “F” term, and under
“C” and “D” terms that the seller will select the
carrier and pay the freight charges.
Shipment definition should be one for all UBL documents.
Hope I answered your question... I wrote too much maybe :)
Ciao
Roberto
Andrew Schoka ha scritto:
Roberto,
Thank you for your probing question. I suspect that Tim has an opinion on
this as the one proposing the consolidated definition. Others may have
additional views. A further question might be is the definition for the UBL
Shipment ASBIE context dependent or should context be reflected in some
modifier of Shipment?
Bill of Lading (B/L) orWaybill both use Shipment but
for a shipment there could be many stages and more documentation.
B/L covers the sea transport
I will also need to ask someone more knowledgeable on OASIS process
regarding how we move this topic to resolution. (Tim, Jon?)
Andy
-----Original Message-----
From: JAVEST [mailto:roberto@javest.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 7:49 AM
To: hvmaaren@cetima.nl
Cc: Andrew Schoka; ubl-tsc@lists.oasis-open.org; dvankemmel@wanadoo.fr;
heikki.laaksamo@tieke.fi; fmh@progrator.dk; ihu@ds.dk; KVP@itst.dk;
Michael.Onder@dot.gov; ralph.ho@tradelink.com.hk; 'Connie Hing, Phaik See';
'Kama, Kamarudin Bin Tambi'; jon.bosak@sun.com; 'Tim McGrath'
Subject: [ubl-tsc] Re: TSC Action Item FollowUp
The CEFACT 'shipment' definition is correct for a generic shipment meaning.
But when the Seller (Shipper) make use of an International Forwarder to
organize the shipment on his behalf we have a "shipment contract".
The "shipment contract" is something different from a "commercial
contract" and of course not a "transport contract".
Is the UBL Shipment ASBIE a:
1) generic container with general shipment information
2) a "shipment contract" detail
3) or both ?
Just a question.
Thanks
UBL ITLSC co-chair
Roberto Cisternino
---
hvmaaren@cetima.nl ha scritto:
Dear Andy,
Within UN/CEFACT (agreed by both transport and trade) the word
shipment refers
to the collection of goods items between the seller and the buyer under a
commercial contract, and the word consignment is used for the
collection of
goods items between the consignor and the consignee under a transport
contract.
I recommend the UBL-TSC to follow the same mechanism for consistency
reasons.
A shipment certainly is not a set of arrangements.
Regards,
Henk van Maaren
Quoting Andrew Schoka <AMSchoka@comcast.net>:
Dear TSC members,
During our last telecon we ran out of time to discuss an action that
we had
been given from the TC. The action item from the TC is as follows:
UPDATE PACKAGE: JPLSC COMMENTS
ACTION (12/18): AS to get answer from TSC regarding JPLSC
comment 25.
JPLSC comment 25 to the 2.0 update package is as follows:
Category
Business Document or ABIE
BIE
Questions, Comments
Transportation
BillOfLading
Waybill
Shipment (ASBIE)
The definitions of Shipment (ASBIE) in BillOfLading and Waybill are
differrent each other,
We think that these definitions should be same.
Definition (BillOfLading): Information about the separately identifiable
collection of goods items (available to be) transported from one
consignor
to one consignee via one or more modes of transport.
Definition (Waybill): A separately identifiable collection of goods
items
(available to be) transported from one consignor to one consignee via
one or
more modes of transport.
I think it is appropriate that there be consistency across the various
documents when the same ASBIEs are identified and their definitions
used.
With regard to the definition of Shipment, I believe that we have
previously
had an email exchange and a telecon discussion regarding an appropriate
definition. Based upon a contribution by Tim McGrath and subsequent
discussions, I propose that we adopt the definition we last discussed
presented in a grammatically correct form.
o SHIPMENT
The arrangements necessary for an identifiable collection of one or more
goods items to be transported between the original consignor and the
ultimate consignee. This information represents what is required,
that is a
"logical" or contractual view. A shipment can be transported in
different
consignments (eg split for logistical purposes).
I propose that this be the resolution of the action item. If I don't
receive
a response within 7 days, I will presume concurrence. Jon will then
use this
definition wherever the definition of shipment is used.
Regards,
Andy Schoka
Acting Chair TSC
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