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Subject: Minutes of Atlantic UBL TC call 30 March 2005

16H00 - 18H00 UTC WEDNESDAY 30 MARCH 2005


   Jon Bosak (chair)
   Tony Coates
   Stephen Green
   Mike Grimley
   Sue Probert
   Sylvia Webb


   Additions to the calendar (http://ibiblio.org/bosak/ubl/calendar.htm)

      The UN/CEFACT Forum meets 26-30 September 2005 in Lyon.

   Liaison report: UN/CEFACT

      SueP: The Forum meeting in Kuala Lumpur was well attended.
      UNeDocs finally has a home in UN/CEFACT: a new TBG group,
      "TBG2, Digital Paper."  The document-centric approach is now
      alive in CEFACT.  Dick Raman has responded to our suggestion
      that the CEFACT NDRs be aligned with UBL with a proposal
      that would create "a single set of XML Schema NDRs that
      accommodate both global and local element declaration
      approaches through the creation of two normative schema for
      each data exchange.  Users would have the option to use
      either schema, but since the NDR and schemas will be
      carefully crafted, the instance documents will be able to be
      validated against either approach." It remains to be seen
      whether this will work in practice.

      JonB: Even if it does work, I wonder whether this meets the
      need for a single standard set of schemas against which to
      develop cheap, off-the-shelf software.  And it doesn't solve
      the problem created by having two completely different
      document-oriented XML syntaxes for UBL and UNeDocs.  We need
      to discuss this further after we see whether the dual-NDR
      approach is technically feasible.  We also need to start
      discussions with the team appointed by CEFACT.

      SueP: Given the large amount of overlap between the proposed
      UBL and CEFACT negotiating teams, Dick has suggested that we
      consider this a joint group tasked with working out a draft
      agreement to be agreed upon by the FMG and the UBL TC.
      [Thus the team would consist of Jon Bosak, Mark Crawford,
      Sue Probert, Tim McGrath, Michael Dill, Mike Doran, and Jean
      Kubler, with Crawford, Probert, and Dill representing both
      sides in this discussion.]

      ACTION: JonB to arrange an initial meeting of this team.

      ACTION: JonB to post Hangzhou meeting info.

      ACTION: JonB to request a specific time to report on UBL at
      the MoU/MG meeting in Brussels 4 April and post slides to
      the MoU/MG.

   Liaison report: TaX XML TC

      SylviaW: A small group has been reviewing UBL messages WRT
      tax requirements and has produced a list of about 30 data
      items that they feel are critical to an endorsement of UBL.
      They have also identified the need for some new document
      types -- credit note, debit note, quotation, quotation
      request, self-billed tax invoice, self-billed credit note --
      and will submit these within the next two weeks for
      consideration in UBL 1.1.  All the artifacts have been
      created in Edifix and are now undergoing review.

      JonB: This sounds similar to the requirements we're getting
      from OGC and IDA.  Any connection?

      SylviaW: Nothing formal.

      JonB: So we will be getting two sets of similar

      SylviaW: Yes.

   W3C TAG

      TonyC: The subject of URNs came up and UBL was mentioned in
      passing as a URN user.

   Subcommittee report: SSC

      StephenG: The SSC has been discussing the derivation and
      import rules (8 and 9).  We concluded that we can't keep to
      those rules; we've tried, and it doesn't work.  In the end,
      we agreed on something close to the ATG2 alternative, and
      we'd like the NDR team to consider this revision for 1.1.
      The problem lies in the XSD syntax for extending things.
      There was also a lot of discussion of the changed NDR rules;
      there are a lot of questions to answer before we can produce
      1.1 schemas.  DavidK is working to produce a set of schemas
      from the 1.0 models that incorporates the uncontroversial

      AGREED that we will attempt to stage a discussion of these
      issues over the next three weeks (i.e., in the Atlantic TC
      calls of 4/6, 4/13, and 4/20).  JonB, MikeG, and StephenG
      are available for all three meetings; SylviaW is traveling
      4/13 and 4/20 but will see if MichaelD or DavidK can attend;
      TonyC is OK with all except 4/13.  We need to check with
      MarkC and MavisC to determine whether we'll have critical
      mass for this discussion.

      ACTION: TC to review StephenG's summary of current issues:


   Subcommittee report: HISC and SBSC

      StephenG: The SBSC has produced a package that is being
      worked on now in the HISC (Beta 2).  It needs a little
      editing; TimM will help with the prose.

      AGREED that we will first look at the package in the TC by
      mail, then circulate in lists like ebxml-dev for a wider
      public review ending in mid-May, then discuss the results in
      both the Atlantic and Pacific TC calls.

      ACTION: StephenG to post the package to the TC.

      ACTION: StephenG to be responsible for input back to Altova
      and other XML vendors interested in bundling the SBS with
      their products.

      ACTION: JonB to contact Altova to update them on our
      progress and get their requirements.

      ACTION: TC to review the current SBS package posed by

   Team report: Code lists

      TonyC: We have added a lot of details to the CL proposal;
      the revised draft went out yesterday to the other team
      members for review.

      ACTION: TonyC to check the discussions that have been taking
      place in ubl-dev and xml-dev.

Jon Bosak

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