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Subject: Re: [uiml] Summary of issues raised by Takashi Endo and suggested UIML 4.0 changes


Thank you, Robbie!

Your earlier e-mail about which id attributes to make true ID's is a
good one.  We will definitely have to take a closer look at which
elements should be assigned true id's.

One short term solution would be to remove the uniqueness requirement
altogether.  Otherwise vocabularies will need to be rethought to
remove all the conflicting d-property id's...

Thoughts?
Jim

On 12/5/07, Robbie Schaefer <robbie@c-lab.de> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I attached the modified specification. I decided to rename the
> "id"-attribute of the variable-element into "name", to avoid confusion.
> Variables don't need a unique identifier, since naming conflicts are
> resolved with the scoping rules and real ID's would be too restrictive.
>
> I changed sections 6.8.5.1, 6.9 and the variable-element in the DTD. All
> should be visible with track changes.
>
> BR,
> Robbie.
> --
>   _/ Dr. Robbie Schaefer        _/ Phone: +49 5251 60-6107  _/
>  _/ Visual Interactive Systems _/ Fax: +49 5251 60-6065    _/
>  _/ C-LAB Fuerstenallee 11     _/                          _/
> _/ D-33102 Paderborn          _/ URL: http://www.c-lab.de _/
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Helms" <jhelms@gmail.com>
> To: "Robbie Schaefer" <robbie@c-lab.de>
> Cc: <uiml@lists.oasis-open.org>; "Jo Vermeulen" <jo.vermeulen@uhasselt.be>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 3:23 PM
> Subject: Re: [uiml] Summary of issues raised by Takashi Endo and suggested
> UIML 4.0 changes
>
>
> > Robbie,
> >
> > Yes, go ahead and update that version.  I have a version I am working,
> > but I have not touched the variable section so it should be easy to
> > merge.
> >
> > Thank you!
> > Jim
> >
> > On 12/4/07, Robbie Schaefer <robbie@c-lab.de> wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> > That is a good point.  I like the way DISL handles this, but we have
> >> > two considerations: 1) UIML sets a precedent with the <property>
> >> > element that establishes "name" as the way to reference an existing id
> >> > without conflicting; and 2) the additional reference attribute still
> >> > leaves us with the issue of having conflicting id's.  The DISL
> >> > approach is very good for readability, but I think the problem Mr.
> >> > Endo had was related to limitations of the DOM specification that only
> >> > allows you to look up single elements by id.
> >>
> >> OK, now I got it :-)
> >> I could update the relevant parts WRT variables (Section 6.9 and the
> >> DTD).
> >> Do I have the most current version? (uiml-core-4.0-draft_RS021007.doc)
> >>
> >> All the best,
> >> Robbie.
> >> --
> >>   _/ Dr. Robbie Schaefer        _/ Phone: +49 5251 60-6107  _/
> >>  _/ Visual Interactive Systems _/ Fax: +49 5251 60-6065    _/
> >>  _/ C-LAB Fuerstenallee 11     _/                          _/
> >> _/ D-33102 Paderborn          _/ URL: http://www.c-lab.de _/
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Jim Helms" <jhelms@gmail.com>
> >> To: "Robbie Schaefer" <robbie@c-lab.de>
> >> Cc: <uiml@lists.oasis-open.org>
> >> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 3:38 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [uiml] Summary of issues raised by Takashi Endo and
> >> suggested
> >> UIML 4.0 changes
> >>
> >>
> >> > Robbie, thanks for you input!  Additional comments below.
> >> >
> >> > On 12/3/07, Robbie Schaefer <robbie@c-lab.de> wrote:
> >> >> > Suggested change: add an attribute to <variable> called "id-ref"
> >> >> > that
> >> >> > is used to reference a variable after it is declared.
> >> >>
> >> >> We had thought of this when designing DISL and the current sulution in
> >> >> the
> >> >> UIML-DTD is that we have an additional attribute for the variable
> >> >> which
> >> >> specifies wether it is used as a declaration or as a reference:
> >> >> reference
> >> >> (true|false) "true".
> >> >>
> >> >> However if all agree that id-ref is the more proper/consitent solution
> >> >> (since it is used in other UIML-elements in the same fashion) I could
> >> >> go
> >> >> through the relevant parts in the spec and change the examples and
> >> >> explanations.
> >> >>
> >> >> The point in favor of the "reference"-Attribute is that it is
> >> >> implicitly
> >> >> set
> >> >> true, so that only once, for the declaration, a variable needs to
> >> >> state
> >> >> the
> >> >> reference attribute, which IMHO adds to the readability of the
> >> >> UIML-document.
> >> >>
> >> >> Anyway, I am open to both options.
> >> >
> >> > That is a good point.  I like the way DISL handles this, but we have
> >> > two considerations: 1) UIML sets a precedent with the <property>
> >> > element that establishes "name" as the way to reference an existing id
> >> > without conflicting; and 2) the additional reference attribute still
> >> > leaves us with the issue of having conflicting id's.  The DISL
> >> > approach is very good for readability, but I think the problem Mr.
> >> > Endo had was related to limitations of the DOM specification that only
> >> > allows you to look up single elements by id.  One way to solve this
> >> > and use the DISL scheme would be to use a different attribute as the
> >> > name of the variable and have an id attribute that's sole purpose is
> >> > to uniquely identify the element within the document.
> >> >
> >> > Whatever we decide, I believe we should choose a consistent scheme to
> >> > handle this for <property>, <variable>, and <param>.  Thus using id in
> >> > the declaration and name for the references may serve for this version
> >> > of the specification with further improvements to come in the next
> >> > version.
> >> >
> >> > Just my thoughts :)
> >> > Jim
> >>
> >>
>
>


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