[Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | [Thread Next] | [Date Next] -- [Date Index] | [Thread Index] | [List Home]
Subject: [no subject]
A thought experiment: imagine writing down the specification for one =
of the use scenarios, to the level of detail needed for independent =
interoperable implementation, in the absence of WS-Context, but with the =
rest of the web service suite available. Now re-run that thought =
experiment, with WS-Context available. For which features and mechanisms =
that are needed for the scenario do you find the second case easier, =
because you can say "i don't need to specify how to do that, because I =
get it automatically because it's part of the WS-Context function, and =
the behavioural requirements on the implementations are implicit in the =
use of WS-Context", whereas in the absence of WS-Context, the particular =
specification had to include that. If the same features and mechanisms =
are made easier for different (potentially) WS-Context-using =
specifications then those are what should be in WS-Context. What are =
those features ? If all the features turn out to be either delivered by =
SOAP Headers or particular to a using-specification, we can collapse =
WS-Context and more straight on to WS-CF :-)
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: Newcomer, Eric [mailto:Eric.Newcomer@iona.com]=20
Sent: 12 February 2004 19:46
To: Furniss, Peter; Mark Little; malik saheb; =
ws-caf@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [ws-caf] Agenda for the demo application
Peter,
Yes, of course much can be accomplished using current =
specifications. As you alluded to yourself, many would say that you can =
accomplish everything in Web services using XML and HTTP. And of course =
there are many possible alternate solutions to context management. This =
is precisely why we are trying to standardize something, so that =
everyone isn't creating their own alternate solutions.
To build a bit on the analogy, everyone can certainly send XML over =
HTTP and build whatever decoders they want to build for extracting =
information from the document and invoking a service or putting the =
information on a queue. And no doubt many people are doing this. =
However, the standards community has a strong believe that a =
specification for how exactly this should be done, or would best be done =
(or perhaps even just adequately done) is preferable to everyone =
creating their own solutions. So we have the SOAP specification telling =
us what kind of XML document to send, what elements to include to assist =
in the processing of that XML document, for reporting faults in a =
standard way and so on.
Of course anyone is free to debate the usefulness of standards and =
conventions for achieving common goals, and I appreciate your views on =
the topic.
Regards,
Eric
-----Original Message-----
From: Furniss, Peter [mailto:Peter.Furniss@choreology.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 10:26 AM
To: Mark Little; malik saheb; ws-caf@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [ws-caf] Agenda for the demo application
Mark,
I've had a look and I still don't see a clear added-value of =
WS-Context itself, or statement of what is deficient in using headers =
directly. There are assertions, as in your first paragraph that =
WS-Context could be used for various things, but I don't see what =
features it adds that aren't there already or which have to be specified =
in some other document known to the various parties.
The problem is that the additional specification (it is not =
necessarily an ALS, it may just be specification - the GAF proposal is =
an example of the sort of thing) has to define the interpretation and =
purpose of the attributes and elements in the context. You could write =
virtually the same specification text saying "this value is put in a =
SOAP header with top-element qname" instead of "this value is put in a =
context with type uri".
That would certainly seem to be the case for pass-by-bulk. =
Pass-by-reference, once it's sorted out, comes down to the =
general-purpose semantics of "here is a soap header with an element that =
is a URI that can be dereferenced to give you more information." =
Everything else is left to the addtional specification.
Undoubtedly the various specs that have context-like behaviour =
*could* function with WS-Context, but I don't see what they would gain =
other than "namespace paint" .
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Little [mailto:mark.little@arjuna.com]=20
Sent: 12 February 2004 14:16
To: Furniss, Peter; malik saheb; ws-caf@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: Re: [ws-caf] Agenda for the demo application
Peter, I think you missed the point. I realise you weren't at =
the first face-to-face, (and I've no idea if you'll be at the next one =
where I'm sure the demo app will be described), but this kind of =
discussion came up in Boston. It was also one of the original FAQ =
questions (can't say for sure if it's on the current TC FAQ though). One =
of the intentions of WS-Context is to try to provide a standard way of =
approaching context, rather than the ad hoc mechanisms that currently =
exist. For example, it would be great if WS-Security adopted WS-Context, =
for example; though whether that actually happens is a different issue =
entirely. WS-RF as another example may be able to utilise WS-Context.
An aim would be to provide a standard that allows existing and =
new uses of context to be more easily created and to work collectively. =
I find it strange to be going back over what the aims of this TC is, =
since we're 4+ (?) months into it, but: we'll define a standard context =
representation that all users will agree upon and can augment if =
required; the location of context will also be precisely defined such =
that it is no longer a hit-and-miss thing to be able to identify =
pertinent "context" information in a header or body. I don't think this =
is a waste of time and effort, and just looking outside of this TC =
neither do the various companies that we have talked to.
And with regard to my comments on the demo. application: as I =
said, I can see how context could be used in the way currently =
described, I just think that an alternative approach may well be easier =
to describe and understand.
Oh, and WS-Context can be used entirely by itself, i.e., without =
any ALS-es. It was designed to. Check out =
http://www.arjuna.com/library/reports/2003-08-12-GAF-v1_0.pdf for =
example.
All the best,
Mark.
P.S. If we're going to discuss the demo. specifically then let's =
take it to the separate working group.
----
Mark Little,
Chief Architect, Transactions,
Arjuna Technologies Ltd.
=20
www.arjuna.com
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Furniss, Peter=20
To: Mark Little ; malik saheb ; ws-caf@lists.oasis-open.org=20
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 1:46 PM
Subject: RE: [ws-caf] Agenda for the demo application
WS-CAFites,
The proposed demo application, and Mark's comments on it are =
very interesting as showing two different approaches by the author =
companies (who are to be congratulated on having such discussions in the =
open, rather than huddling away in a corner :-). But they raise a query =
I've had in my mind about WS-Context.
By design WS-Context can't be used completely alone - there =
has to be some additional specification known to the various parties - =
so in the demo application, the client and the retailers all know of the =
shopping cart application. Exactly what behaviour is required of them =
differs slightly between the demo as written and Mark's suggestions - =
but the client has at least to know that it has to put the context on =
the messages to the retailers, and the retailers to know they must make =
their supplying part of the cart.
The problem I have is that I can't quite work out what =
WS-Context adds that isn't already available in SOAP headers. The =
WS-Context-using shopping cart specification will be identified by a URI =
(the "type" in the context -this is probably the same as, or related to, =
the ALS-context identifier). A service receiving a context with that uri =
(or finding it after dereferencing a pass-by-reference context) will =
thus know what it has to do, as specified by the shopping cart spec: but =
that's all part of the shopping cart spec, and not WS-Context =
(especially if, as Mark suggests the shopping cart ALS offers its own =
service, with addToCart, removeFromCart).
Compare that with exactly the same shopping cart service =
specified using SOAP header, and able to generate a unique shopping cart =
identifier. The shopping cart specification defines a soap header, using =
the namespace uri to identify it's headers among all the other that =
exist. The header includes the URI of the shopping cart service and any =
other identifiers - in fact exactly the same information that it would =
need to specify as being contained in the context had it used =
WS-Context. A service receiving a shopping cart header does exactly the =
same things as one receiving a shopping cart context.
The demo app as described does have the Context Service doing =
more, but that seems to be what can be done with http anyway - the =
context identification URI labels a resource that can be fetched (get) =
or changed (put) (but no equivalent of post at ctx level).
The shopping-cart service is using the Context-service to =
generate the unique identifier, but that isn't difficult to do itself =
(and might well be counter-productive to take one in from the Ctx =
service, since if the shopping cart chose its own URI's it could put =
locally-meaningful (but externally opaque) information in them, whereas =
if the URI is given to it by a Context Service the cart service must =
indirect through a hash or whatever.)
To summarise:
What gain does a WS-Context-using specification gain from =
WS-Context that it could not have got from the combination of:
=20
- SOAP Headers, which identify, by the namespace URI which =
specification they refer to and can contain elements and attributes of =
use to that specification
- HTTP Get, Put and Post which can fetch, set and modify a =
remotely-held body of information unambiguously identified by a URI
Good grief, I've turned into a RESTafarian ! =20
=20
This isn't to say there might not be something in the higher =
levels of WS-CAF (I have thoughts on that too :-), but I have a =
suspicion that by the time you've generalised the context-layer =
sufficiently to make it general (i.e. to justify ws-context as a =
separate spec), there isn't anything left worth specifying. Yes, several =
things need to pass around identifications, and associated information =
and there are some protocol design issues that are worthy of summarising =
(e.g. rules about unambiguity must be precise, implications of id =
exchange) but there isn't anything worth making into a distinct =
protocol.
Peter
------------------------------------------
Peter Furniss
Chief Scientist, Choreology Ltd
web: http://www.choreology.com
email: peter.furniss@choreology.com
phone: +44 870 739 0066
mobile: +44 7951 536168
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Little [mailto:mark.little@arjuna.com]=20
Sent: 11 February 2004 11:53
To: malik saheb; ws-caf@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: Re: [ws-caf] Agenda for the demo application
I've attached comments to the document. As far as I can see, =
this still needs work. The architecture of the application seems to be a =
very strange use of context in general, and WS-Context specifically. =
Maybe this is a carry-over from the WS-I demo?
Mark.
----
Mark Little,
Chief Architect, Transactions,
Arjuna Technologies Ltd.
=20
www.arjuna.com
----- Original Message -----=20
From: malik saheb=20
To: ws-caf@lists.oasis-open.org=20
Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 7:00 PM
Subject: [ws-caf] Agenda for the demo application
Hi All
=20
I have attached the document explaining how the demo =
application can use the WS-Context.=20
The way the demo will use the other specifications will be =
provided later according to the schedule described below and that follow =
the following steps.
=20
- Before a meeting we will produce a document describing =
the demo application using a particular specification (deadline 1 week =
before the meeting)
- During a meeting the document made previously available =
will be discussed=20
- Show a demo application with a particular specification =
(no demo for the Paris meeting)=20
=20
In other words:
2nd meeting - Paris
- Before the meeting - we provide the demo application =
with the WS-CTX.
- During the meeting - Discuss the demo application with =
WS-CTX=20
=20
3rd meeting New Orleans=20
- Before the meeting - produce a document of the demo =
application with WS-CF
- Discuss of the application with WS-CF=20
- Show the Demo Application with the WS-Context (described =
in the previous meeting)
=20
4th F2F meeting (date to be determined) -=20
- Before the meeting - produce a document of the demo =
application with WS-TXM
- Discuss of the application with WS-TXM
- Show the Demo Application with the WS-CF (described in =
the previous meeting)
=20
5th F2F meeting (date to be determined) -=20
- Show the Demo Application with the WS-TXM (described in =
the previous meeting)
=20
Malik=20
=20
------=_NextPart_000_03B7_01C3F21C.B0F8D750
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"; xmlns:v =3D=20
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o =3D=20
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w =3D=20
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:st1 =3D=20
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"><HEAD><TITLE>Message</TITLE>=
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3DWord.Document name=3DProgId>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2737.800" name=3DGENERATOR>
<META content=3D"Microsoft Word 10" name=3DOriginator><LINK=20
href=3D"cid:filelist.xml@01C3EF47.6D220B50"; =
rel=3DFile-List><o:SmartTagType=20
name=3D"City"=20
namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:SmartTagT=
ype><o:SmartTagType=20
name=3D"place"=20
namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:SmartTagT=
ype><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:OfficeDocumentSettings>
<o:DoNotRelyOnCSS/>
</o:OfficeDocumentSettings>
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<w:WordDocument>
<w:SpellingState>Clean</w:SpellingState>
<w:GrammarState>Clean</w:GrammarState>
<w:DocumentKind>DocumentEmail</w:DocumentKind>
<w:EnvelopeVis/>
<w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel>
</w:WordDocument>
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if !mso]>
<STYLE>st1\:* {
BEHAVIOR: url(#default#ieooui)
}
</STYLE>
<![endif]-->
<STYLE>@page Section1 {size: 612.0pt 792.0pt; margin: 72.0pt 90.0pt =
72.0pt 90.0pt; mso-header-margin: 35.4pt; mso-footer-margin: 35.4pt; =
mso-paper-source: 0; }
P.MsoNormal {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; =
mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; =
mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"
}
LI.MsoNormal {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; =
mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; =
mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"
}
DIV.MsoNormal {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; =
mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; =
mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"
}
A:link {
COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; text-underline: single
}
SPAN.MsoHyperlink {
COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; text-underline: single
}
A:visited {
COLOR: purple; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; text-underline: single
}
SPAN.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {
COLOR: purple; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; text-underline: single
}
SPAN.EmailStyle17 {
COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-style-type: personal; =
mso-style-noshow: yes; mso-ansi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: =
10.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; mso-hansi-font-family: Arial; =
mso-bidi-font-family: Arial
}
SPAN.EmailStyle18 {
COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-style-type: personal-reply; =
mso-style-noshow: yes; mso-ansi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: =
10.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; mso-hansi-font-family: Arial; =
mso-bidi-font-family: Arial
}
DIV.Section1 {
page: Section1
}
</STYLE>
<!--[if gte mso 10]>
<style>
/* Style Definitions */=20
table.MsoNormalTable
{mso-style-name:"Table Normal";
mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0;
mso-tstyle-colband-size:0;
mso-style-noshow:yes;
mso-style-parent:"";
mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt;
mso-para-margin:0cm;
mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
</style>
<![endif]--></HEAD>
<BODY lang=3DEN-US style=3D"tab-interval: 36.0pt" vLink=3Dpurple =
link=3Dblue=20
bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Peter, let's not forget that WS-Context =
is part of=20
a composite application framework. So, although we have said that =
context is=20
useful in its own right, this runs the risk of ignoring the overall =
model it=20
defines which is based on activities and grouping multiple context =
augmenting=20
services into the same activity. Once again, this is obviously something =
that=20
people can do now, but in an ad hoc manner. From talking to several =
companies=20
who have expressed a real interest in context, it's this capability of =
adding=20
different services to an activity to give it concrete meaning and have =
them=20
collectively augment the context opaquely, that's =
interesting.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I can understand your concerns, and =
it's important=20
that these sorts of things are voiced at any standards body. However, =
the=20
feedback we've had so far on WS-Context is all positive, so I think it's =
worth=20
forging ahead with this. Remember, as with any standard, you can always =
ignore=20
it if you don't think it's relevant to your business model or =
application=20
requirement.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Mark.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>----<BR>Mark Little,<BR>Chief =
Architect,=20
Transactions,<BR>Arjuna Technologies Ltd.<BR> <BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.arjuna.com";>www.arjuna.com</A><BR></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">
<DIV><SPAN class=3D004163523-12022004><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN></DIV><SPAN class=3D004163523-12022004><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D004163523-12022004><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>It's=20
not the concept of standardising that I have issue with - I've been =
heavily=20
involved in open protocol standards for nearly 20 years - it's =
just=20
whether WS-Context has enough substance to be worth factoring out as a =
layer=20
to be built on by multiple users.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D004163523-12022004><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D004163523-12022004><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>All=20
protocol standards define, by some means, a syntax and some =
related=20
semantics. But with WS-Context, although it is clear enough what =
the=20
syntax is, I remain unconvinced that there is any significant =
semantics=20
carried by the WS-Context syntax, that is not equally carried by =
its=20
immediate carrier, the SOAP header.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D004163523-12022004><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D004163523-12022004><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I am=20
perhaps running ahead here and assuming the progression of ws-context=20
will clean up the text and take out some things that are already =
there,=20
because closer study will show they are not generic and ought to be =
part of=20
the additional specification that is invariable needed to define=20
the syntax and semantics of the content of the context. From the =
first=20
meeting, I've been trying get clarity (in my own mind, and =
seeking it for=20
the text) on what the generic semantics are - hence the request =
for the=20
example scenarios you</FONT> <FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>and others put forward. But they show the problem quite =
well -=20
although they certainly CAN use WS-Context, they don't seem to be =
gaining=20
anything from it that isn't already there in SOAP headers, and perhaps =
the=20
dereferencing.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D004163523-12022004><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D004163523-12022004><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>A=20
thought experiment: imagine writing down the specification for one of =
the use=20
scenarios, to the level of detail needed for independent interoperable =
implementation, in the absence of WS-Context, but with the rest of the =
web=20
service suite available. Now re-run that thought experiment, with =
WS-Context=20
available. For which features and mechanisms that are needed for the =
scenario=20
do you find the second case easier, because you can say "i don't need =
to=20
specify how to do that, because I get it automatically because it's =
part of=20
the WS-Context function, and the behavioural requirements on the=20
implementations are implicit in the use of WS-Context", whereas in the =
absence=20
of WS-Context, the particular specification had to include that. =
If the=20
same features and mechanisms are made easier for different =
(potentially)=20
WS-Context-using specifications then those are what should be in=20
WS-Context. What are those features ? If all the features turn =
out to be=20
either delivered by SOAP Headers or particular to a =
using-specification, we=20
can collapse WS-Context and more straight on to WS-CF =
:-)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D004163523-12022004><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D004163523-12022004><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D004163523-12022004><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Peter</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D004163523-12022004><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D004163523-12022004><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D004163523-12022004><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D004163523-12022004><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D004163523-12022004><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original =
Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
Newcomer, Eric [mailto:Eric.Newcomer@iona.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> 12 =
February=20
2004 19:46<BR><B>To:</B> Furniss, Peter; Mark Little; malik saheb;=20
ws-caf@lists.oasis-open.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [ws-caf] Agenda for =
the=20
demo application<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV><SPAN class=3D000163819-12022004><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Peter,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D000163819-12022004><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D000163819-12022004><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Yes, of course much can be accomplished using current=20
specifications. As you alluded to yourself, many would say =
that you=20
can accomplish everything in Web services using XML and HTTP. =
And of=20
course there are many possible alternate solutions to context=20
management. This is precisely why we are trying to standardize =
something, so that everyone isn't creating their own alternate=20
solutions.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D000163819-12022004><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D000163819-12022004><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>To=20
build a bit on the analogy, everyone can certainly send XML over =
HTTP and=20
build whatever decoders they want to build for extracting =
information from=20
the document and invoking a service or putting the information on a=20
queue. And no doubt many people are doing this. However, =
the=20
standards community has a strong believe that a specification for =
how=20
exactly this should be done, or would best be done (or perhaps even =
just=20
adequately done) is preferable to everyone creating their own=20
solutions. So we have the SOAP specification telling us what =
kind of=20
XML document to send, what elements to include to assist in the =
processing=20
of that XML document, for reporting faults in a standard way and so=20
on.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D000163819-12022004><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D000163819-12022004><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Of=20
course anyone is free to debate the usefulness of standards and =
conventions=20
for achieving common goals, and I appreciate your views on the=20
topic.</FONT></SPAN></DIV><SPAN class=3D000163819-12022004>
<DIV><BR><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Regards,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV></SPAN><SPAN class=3D000163819-12022004><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Eric</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Furniss, Peter =
[mailto:Peter.Furniss@choreology.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, =
February=20
12, 2004 10:26 AM<BR><B>To:</B> Mark Little; malik saheb;=20
ws-caf@lists.oasis-open.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [ws-caf] Agenda =
for the=20
demo application<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D642294514-12022004><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Mark,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D642294514-12022004><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D642294514-12022004><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>I've had a look and I still don't see a clear added-value =
of=20
WS-Context itself, or statement of what is deficient in using =
headers=20
directly. There are assertions, as in your first paragraph that =
WS-Context=20
could be used for various things, but I don't see what features it =
adds=20
that aren't there already or which have to be specified in some =
other=20
document known to the various parties.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D642294514-12022004><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D642294514-12022004><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D642294514-12022004><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>The problem is that the additional specification (it is =
not=20
necessarily an ALS, it may just be specification - the GAF =
proposal is an=20
example of the sort of thing) has to define the interpretation and =
purpose=20
of the attributes and elements in the context. You could write =
virtually=20
the same specification text saying "this value is put in a SOAP =
header=20
with top-element qname" instead of "this value is put in a context =
with=20
type uri".</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D642294514-12022004><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D642294514-12022004><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>That would certainly seem to be the case for =
pass-by-bulk.=20
Pass-by-reference, once it's sorted out, comes down to the =
general-purpose=20
semantics of "here is a soap header with an element that is a URI =
that can=20
be dereferenced to give you more information." Everything else is =
left to=20
the addtional specification.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D642294514-12022004><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D642294514-12022004><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Undoubtedly the various specs that have context-like =
behaviour=20
*could* function with WS-Context, but I don't see what they would =
gain=20
other than "namespace paint" .</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D642294514-12022004><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D642294514-12022004></SPAN><SPAN=20
class=3D642294514-12022004><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D642294514-12022004><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Peter</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D642294514-12022004><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff =
2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original =
Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Mark=20
Little [mailto:mark.little@arjuna.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> 12 =
February 2004=20
14:16<BR><B>To:</B> Furniss, Peter; malik saheb;=20
ws-caf@lists.oasis-open.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [ws-caf] =
Agenda for=20
the demo application<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Peter, I think you missed the =
point. I=20
realise you weren't at the first face-to-face, (and I've no idea =
if=20
you'll be at the next one where I'm sure the demo app will be=20
described), but this kind of discussion came up in Boston. It =
was also=20
one of the original FAQ questions (can't say for sure if it's on =
the=20
current TC FAQ though). One of the intentions of WS-Context is =
to try to=20
provide a standard way of approaching context, rather than the =
ad hoc=20
mechanisms that currently exist. For example, it would be great =
if=20
WS-Security adopted WS-Context, for example; though whether that =
actually happens is a different issue entirely. WS-RF as another =
example=20
may be able to utilise WS-Context.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>An aim would be to provide a =
standard that=20
allows existing and new uses of context to be more easily =
created and to=20
work collectively. I find it strange to be going back over what =
the aims=20
of this TC is, since we're 4+ (?) months into it, but: we'll =
define a=20
standard context representation that all users will agree upon =
and can=20
augment if required; the location of context will also be =
precisely=20
defined such that it is no longer a hit-and-miss thing to be =
able to=20
identify pertinent "context" information in a header or body. I =
don't=20
think this is a waste of time and effort, and just looking =
outside of=20
this TC neither do the various companies that we have talked=20
to.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>And with regard to my comments =
on the demo.=20
application: as I said, I can see how context could be used in =
the way=20
currently described, I just think that an alternative approach =
may well=20
be easier to describe and understand.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Oh, and WS-Context can be used =
entirely by=20
itself, i.e., without any ALS-es. It was designed to. Check out =
<A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.arjuna.com/library/reports/2003-08-12-GAF-v1_0.pdf";>ht=
tp://www.arjuna.com/library/reports/2003-08-12-GAF-v1_0.pdf</A> for =
example.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>All the best,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Mark.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>P.S. If we're going to discuss =
the demo.=20
specifically then let's take it to the separate working=20
group.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>----<BR>Mark Little,<BR>Chief =
Architect,=20
Transactions,<BR>Arjuna Technologies Ltd.<BR> <BR><A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.arjuna.com";>www.arjuna.com</A><BR></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3DPeter.Furniss@choreology.com=20
href=3D"mailto:Peter.Furniss@choreology.com";>Furniss, =
Peter</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Dmark.little@arjuna.com =
href=3D"mailto:mark.little@arjuna.com";>Mark=20
Little</A> ; <A title=3Dmalik.saheb@arjuna.com=20
href=3D"mailto:malik.saheb@arjuna.com";>malik saheb</A> ; <A=20
title=3Dws-caf@lists.oasis-open.org=20
=
href=3D"mailto:ws-caf@lists.oasis-open.org";>ws-caf@lists.oasis-open.org</=
A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, =
February 12, 2004=20
1:46 PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [ws-caf] =
Agenda for=20
the demo application</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
=
class=3D251044413-12022004>WS-CAFites,</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D251044413-12022004></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D+0><SPAN =
class=3D251044413-12022004></SPAN><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>The <SPAN =
class=3D251044413-12022004>proposed=20
</SPAN>demo application, and Mark's comments on it are very=20
interesting as showing two different approaches by the=20
author <SPAN class=3D251044413-12022004>companies =
</SPAN>(who are=20
to be congratulated on having such discussions in the open, =
rather=20
than huddling away in a corner :-). But they raise a query =
I've had in=20
my mind about WS-Context.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>By design WS-Context can't be =
used=20
completely alone - there has to be some additional =
specification known=20
to the various parties - so in the demo application, the =
client and=20
the retailers all know of the shopping cart application. =
Exactly what=20
behaviour is required of them differs slightly between the =
demo as=20
written and Mark's suggestions - but the client has at least =
to know=20
that it has to put the context on the messages to the =
retailers, and=20
the retailers to know they must make their supplying part of =
the=20
cart.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The problem I have is that I =
can't quite=20
work out what WS-Context adds that isn't already available in =
SOAP=20
headers. The WS-Context-using shopping cart specification will =
be=20
identified by a URI (the "type" in the context -this is =
probably the=20
same as, or related to, the ALS-context identifier). A service =
receiving a context with that uri (or finding it after =
dereferencing a=20
pass-by-reference context) will thus know what it has to do, =
as=20
specified by the shopping cart spec: but that's all part of =
the=20
shopping cart spec, and not WS-Context (especially if, as Mark =
suggests the shopping cart ALS offers its own service, with =
addToCart,=20
removeFromCart).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Compare that with exactly the =
same=20
shopping cart service specified using SOAP header, and able to =
generate a unique shopping cart identifier. The shopping cart=20
specification defines a soap header, using the namespace uri =
to=20
identify it's headers among all the other that exist. The =
header=20
includes the URI of the shopping cart service and any other=20
identifiers - in fact exactly the same information that it =
would need=20
to specify as being contained in the context had it used =
WS-Context. A=20
service receiving a shopping cart header does exactly the same =
things=20
as one receiving a shopping cart context.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The demo app as described =
does have the=20
Context Service doing more, but that seems to be what can be =
done with=20
http anyway - the context identification URI labels a resource =
that=20
can be fetched (get) or changed (put) (but no equivalent of =
post at=20
ctx level).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The shopping-cart service is =
using the=20
Context-service to generate the unique identifier, but that =
isn't=20
difficult to do itself (and might well be counter-productive =
to take=20
one in from the Ctx service, since if the shopping cart chose =
its own=20
URI's it could put locally-meaningful (but externally opaque)=20
information in them, whereas if the URI is given to it by a =
Context=20
Service the cart service must indirect through a hash or=20
whatever.)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>To summarise:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>What gain does a =
WS-Context-using=20
specification gain from WS-Context that it could not have got =
from the=20
combination of:<BR> <BR><SPAN=20
=
class=3D251044413-12022004> - </SPAN>SOAP=20
Headers, which identify, by the namespace URI which =
specification they=20
refer to and can contain elements and attributes of use to =
that=20
specification</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D251044413-12022004> - </SPAN>HTTP =
Get, Put and=20
Post which can fetch, set and modify a remotely-held body of=20
information unambiguously identified by a =
URI</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Good grief, I've turned into =
a=20
RESTafarian ! <BR> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D793080400-12022004><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>This isn't=20
to say there might not be something in the higher levels of =
WS-CAF (I=20
have thoughts on that too :-), but I have a suspicion that by =
the time=20
you've generalised the context-layer sufficiently to make it =
general=20
(i.e. to justify ws-context as a separate spec), there isn't =
anything=20
left worth specifying. Yes, several things need to pass around =
identifications, and associated information and there are some =
protocol design issues that are worthy of summarising (e.g. =
rules=20
about unambiguity must be precise, implications of =
id=20
exchange) but there isn't anything worth making into a =
distinct=20
protocol.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Peter</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>------------------------------------------<BR>Peter=20
Furniss<BR>Chief Scientist, Choreology Ltd<BR>web: <A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.choreology.com/";>http://www.choreology.com</A><BR>emai=
l:=20
<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:peter.furniss@choreology.com";>peter.furniss@choreology.com=
</A><BR>phone:=20
+44 870 739 0066<BR>mobile: +44 7951 536168<BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: =
#0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original =
Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Mark=20
Little [mailto:mark.little@arjuna.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> 11 =
February=20
2004 11:53<BR><B>To:</B> malik saheb;=20
ws-caf@lists.oasis-open.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [ws-caf] =
Agenda=20
for the demo application<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I've attached comments to =
the document.=20
As far as I can see, this still needs work. The architecture =
of the=20
application seems to be a very strange use of context in =
general,=20
and WS-Context specifically. Maybe this is a carry-over from =
the=20
WS-I demo?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Mark.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>----<BR>Mark =
Little,<BR>Chief=20
Architect, Transactions,<BR>Arjuna Technologies =
Ltd.<BR> <BR><A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.arjuna.com";>www.arjuna.com</A><BR></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message =
----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; =
font-color: black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dmalik.saheb@arjuna.com=20
href=3D"mailto:malik.saheb@arjuna.com";>malik saheb</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Dws-caf@lists.oasis-open.org=20
=
href=3D"mailto:ws-caf@lists.oasis-open.org";>ws-caf@lists.oasis-open.org</=
A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, =
February 09,=20
2004 7:00 PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [ws-caf] =
Agenda for=20
the demo application</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=3DSection1>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Hi=20
All<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">I have=20
attached the document explaining how the demo application =
can use=20
the WS-Context. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">The way=20
the demo will use the other specifications will be =
provided later=20
according to the schedule described below and that follow =
the=20
following steps.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">- Before=20
a meeting we will produce a document describing the demo=20
application using a particular specification (deadline 1 =
week=20
before the meeting)<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">- During=20
a meeting the document made previously available will be =
discussed=20
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">- Show a=20
demo application with a particular specification (no demo =
for the=20
</SPAN></FONT><st1:City><st1:place><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Paris</SPAN></FONT></st1:place></st1:City><FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"> meeting)=20
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">In other=20
words:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">2<SUP>nd</SUP>=20
meeting - Paris<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">- Before=20
the meeting =96 we provide the demo application with the=20
WS-CTX.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">- During=20
the meeting =96 Discuss the demo application with WS-CTX=20
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">3<SUP>rd</SUP>=20
meeting </SPAN></FONT><st1:City><st1:place><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">New=20
Orleans</SPAN></FONT></st1:place></st1:City><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">=20
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">- Before=20
the meeting =96 produce a document of the demo application =
with=20
WS-CF<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">- Discuss=20
of the application with WS-CF =
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">- Show=20
the Demo Application with the WS-Context (described in the =
previous meeting)<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">4<SUP>th</SUP>=20
F2F meeting (date to be determined) =96=20
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">- Before=20
the meeting =96 produce a document of the demo application =
with=20
WS-TXM<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">- Discuss=20
of the application with =
WS-TXM<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">- Show=20
the Demo Application with the WS-CF (described in the =
previous=20
meeting)<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">5<SUP>th</SUP>=20
F2F meeting (date to be determined) =96=20
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">- Show=20
the Demo Application with the WS-TXM (described in the =
previous=20
meeting)<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Malik</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">=20
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D3><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>=
</BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY><=
/HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_03B7_01C3F21C.B0F8D750--
[Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | [Thread Next] | [Date Next] -- [Date Index] | [Thread Index] | [List Home]